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Thread: USA!!! (x2)

  1. #101
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    There is no perfect player...there is no perfect hockey.
    It's limiting your mistakes.
    There are a number of things that would determine the most complete player.
    What they are, would change from person to person, so...
    The perfect player would be one that had a real chance of scoring every time he touched the puck.
    That only happened once in the history of the game, just one guy was that big a threat....Wayne Gretzky!
    His total game was short of what typical Canadian hockey is, but no one single handedly won more hockey games or set more records.
    Second would be Mario....they actually played pretty good together, if you remember.
    And, Brodeur and Roy...he's more durable and not short on skill and clutch wins.
    For the NHL...yeah there are better picks.
    In a World Championship one game shoot out, Hasek "if" he's young enough and "if" he's health.
    Not big on the if.........I'm just trying to agree with you on something.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Oscar_Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Hasek was a gamble in the later part of his career. Wings found that out when they had to pull him for Osgood.

    I would pick Brodeur over Roy any day. I like the stand up style of goal way better, as obsolete as it may be. I do remember the Gretzky - Lemieux too. There is actually a book written about that. As for Gretz, I think Messier was better. Messier was a better leader, maybe not as good of a scorer but still one of the best, especially when it mattered. Game six in the Rangers/Devils series in 94 was one of the best performances ever. I honestly think Lemieux would have beat some of Gretzky's records if he wasn't plagued by health issues too. If I remember right Lemieux had a higher PPG% than Gretzky. I may be wrong though.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar_Leroy View Post
    Hasek was a gamble in the later part of his career. Wings found that out when they had to pull him for Osgood.

    I would pick Brodeur over Roy any day. I like the stand up style of goal way better, as obsolete as it may be. I do remember the Gretzky - Lemieux too. There is actually a book written about that. As for Gretz, I think Messier was better. Messier was a better leader, maybe not as good of a scorer but still one of the best, especially when it mattered. Game six in the Rangers/Devils series in 94 was one of the best performances ever. I honestly think Lemieux would have beat some of Gretzky's records if he wasn't plagued by health issues too. If I remember right Lemieux had a higher PPG% than Gretzky. I may be wrong though.
    Yeah Mario's ppg is bigger with a lot less games.
    I'll give him the nod as a more natural goal scorer, but the records speak for themselves.
    Gretz get the credit for the coincidental penalty.
    If you remember, they changed the rules, because 4 on 4 with Gretz on the ice wasn't far!
    No one ever had that type of offensive impact.
    Gretzkys career has no if....do you realize that you need to score 50 a year for 17 straight years to get to 850?
    And you still would be in second.
    Mess was more complete, he just couldn't change a game like Gretz...he learned to by the time he was in NY.
    He had watched Gretz do it for years at that point!
    That is the other thing...how Gretz made his teammates better.
    There is no one show you more things, that you had never seen before, then Wayne!
    I was agreeing with you about Brodeur...I just replace Hasek with Roy.
    Last edited by Jack Butler; 01-16-2010 at 12:01 PM.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Oscar_Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    If any player could score 50 that many seasons in a row I think Mario would be the one to do it. What was Gretzkys record though? 92 in a season? I still can't believe how many people though Gretzky was a slow skater and would never make it in the NHL... I think Gretzky got ripped off too. He would be a Calder winner, ad hold some rookie records if it weren't for technicalities.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Might be showing my age but you can not have a serious discussion about who was the best with out mentioning Bobby Orr, which is one of the few things that Cherry gets right.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    I've only seen a few clips of Orr, but he looked amazing. I think in terms of pure goal scorer you could make a case for Mike Bossy too.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Grapes gets more than that right.
    I agree with the addition of Bobby Orr.
    Just a awesome man....met him at Espositos camp at Pointe Deschene in the 60's.
    Than again in 2000... he said he remembered and did describe a bunch of things that were spot on.
    I was pretty impressed.
    It's another career with a lot of "ifs", but when health, the best defence man ever!

  8. #108
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Here's something to help you understand the difference.
    Canadians ability to fight in hockey separates us from the other countries.
    Not that the goons are who we hang our hats on, it's the Canadian acceptance and understanding of it's place.
    Most all Canadians will drop 'em in a heart beat...that's not true if you look at other countries.
    Like I said, you can't coach bravery and of course size...we win in both categories!

  9. #109
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackButler View Post
    Most all Canadians will drop 'em in a heart beat...that's not true if you look at other countries.
    Like I said, you can't coach bravery and of course size...we win in both categories!

    bravery, ya right

  10. #110
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by GRUMPY View Post
    bravery, ya right
    Grumpyyyyy!
    You are so articulate and your examples are impeccable!
    What....a post!
    .....go back to sleep if all you're gonna do is troll!

  11. #111
    Senior Member Oscar_Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    I will admit Canada has the advantage in guys like Iginla, Messier, Richards. I think Europeans do bring a lot of excitement to the game though. Tons of finesse. Bure, Ovechkin, Jagr.. I think one of the most exciting guys had to be LaFontaine. I think in terms of prototypical power forward Lindros in his prime is the best though. Sad that he got hurt so much.

  12. #112
    GRUMPY
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackButler View Post
    Grumpyyyyy!
    You are so articulate and your examples are impeccable!
    What....a post!
    .....go back to sleep if all you're gonna do is troll!
    sorry but that was the best I could do for such an idiotic post that you put up.please give us a warning the next time that you plan to post something so stupid.

  13. #113
    Senior Member Super Gram's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)


  14. #114
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by GRUMPY View Post
    sorry but that was the best I could do for such an idiotic post that you put up.please give us a warning the next time that you plan to post something so stupid.
    Grumpyyyyyyy!
    Idiotic....care to expound?
    You must have been a perimeter player?
    I know...the worst thing you said on the ice was......excuse me?

  15. #115
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    Default Re: USA!!! (x2)

    Parameter players drive me nuts. I really like Phil Kessell, but you see him on the PP? He stands at the half boards waiting for a lane to open up half of the time, and either forces a shot or passes to the point for a point shot. The Leafs need somebody not on the 3rd line, or not 5'10 willing to drive to the net and make some noise in the crease. It's no surprise that when they had Primeau on the ice in front of the goalie and a sniper on the ice willing to drive a bit to get in a good area goals are scored. What makes me even more nuts is Ponikarovski is a huge guy with some good speed and an pretty good shot and he drives to the net once every ten games... I swear they are making goalies everywhere look good by peppering them with easy shots and no net presence. Look at Ovechkin, he makes space for himself by driving to the net so hard, same with Iginla, Malkin etc.. I don't know where I'm going with this. Just a frustrated Toronto fan..

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