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Thread: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Anybody know what the word "straw man" means?
    Now if I understood this correctly, there's a 60 day extension with no UBB, followed by a more than likely overturning of the decision.
    However, the major ISP's can still apply UBB to their customers, but can not force UBB upon third party ISP's who use their or part of their network infrastructure. Am I correct?
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Only for DSL as I understand it.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Tekksavvy still has an unlimited cable plan according to their web site. Looks like they only changed the DSL packages.
    So is UBB for both cable and DSL, or is Shaw trying to pull a fast one?
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    Senior Member Andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    UBB for cable got approve years ago. I believe they have a submission similar to Bell's to the CRTC coming up in a few months to prevent Teksavvy and others from providing unlimited cable.
    Teksavvy cable is not available here and I haven't heard of them trying to work anything out with Shaw.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Kind of funny how last night I was asking if we wanted to get the city of SSM to do something and today I read this http://www.sootoday.com/content/news...ryNumber=50652

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    It's interesting to see how they are trying to defend their position by painting a picture that heavy users are being subsidized by small users, and therefore it's time to force heavy users to pay extra as it's unfair for the small user.
    They never once mention that in the end the small user at best will keep paying the same, while the heavy user will pay more, and neither will receive anything extra in terms of service.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    It's interesting to see how they are trying to defend their position by painting a picture that heavy users are being subsidized by small users, and therefore it's time to force heavy users to pay extra as it's unfair for the small user.
    They never once mention that in the end the small user at best will keep paying the same, while the heavy user will pay more, and neither will receive anything extra in terms of service.
    They never mention who will receive anything extra, because that is not what UBB is about. Everyone is given a cap. You pay a standard rate for a specific internet bundle. It's about the heavy users compensating for their overages. Why should anyone receive anything extra?
    ....................

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    What's a heavy user?
    What is more damaging to the performance of a network : data traffic, or bandwidth usage?
    Why should my bill double or triple?
    Why should 250 GB of data cost 50$ to deliver to me, when I can purchase a 500 GB hard drive for the same price?
    How much is the actual cost for Shaw to deliver 250 GB of data to me? Is it 10$,25$,40$ ?
    Why does Shaw refuse to say what the actual cost of data delivery to a customer is?
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  9. #69
    Senior Member Andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    I'd say a heavy user is some using into the terabytes of internet traffic.
    It is estimated that the price to deliver a GB to your home is somewhere between less than 1 and 3 so 250GB would be $2.00 up to $7.50.
    Starting to see now why Canada has some of the most expensive bandwidth in the world?

    If they want to implement UBB then let's start with an honest UBB pricing model.
    Many want to compare it to water, gasoline or hydro. While this is completely false we'll use it as a pricing structure.
    Hydro has a basic line fee to your home and then charges per kilowatt.
    Lets give the big telco's a generous line fee of say $10/month. Even though you already have a phone line and cable line running to your home and already pay line fees for that line with your cable or telephone service.
    Now lets give them an add generous fee of say 10/GB.
    If you use 250GB your bill would be line fee $10 plus $25 of bandwidth for a total of $35 a month.
    If you only use 25 GB/month your bill would be a line fee of $10 plus $2.50 for bandwidth for a total of $12.50/month.

    No way in hell the telco's want this and if it became public knowledge people would be even more pissed than they are now.

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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    I have no problem comparing UBB against water, gas, electricity, if the comparison is done correctly.
    And in order to do that, the breakdown of your bill has to show the same information. This includes price per unit and transmission cost, amongst other things.
    There's not 1 ISP that currently shows any of that information, and most simply refuse to even tell you that information citing competition issues.
    Well guess what? Water, gas, electricity retailers also have competition, and they share it no problem.

    I am awaiting my next bill, hoping it shows the price per GB, how many GB I used, transmission costs, HST, and any other things a PUC bill shows.
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  11. #71
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    How do you differ bandwidth usage and data traffic?
    ....................

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Bandwidth is the maximum amount of data you can transfer over a transmission medium within a certain time, and is typically measured per second. For example 15 Mbit/sec.
    Data traffic is the amount of data you transfer over a transmission medium, and is typically measured over a much longer period of time. For example 100 GB/month.

    Bandwidth usage is much more damaging to a network than data traffic, as bandwidth exists in limited quantities and is shared amongst all users. What I mean with that is that not every user can use 15Mbit/sec at the same time, as an ISP does not have the capability to provide that kind of bandwidth on its network. Instead it's calculated on a "speed up to" basis, and varies pending on how much is available at any given time.

    Or to use a calculation as an example :

    Bandwidth 8 Mbit/sec = 1 Megabyte/sec
    To download 100 GB using that connection, at maximum bandwidth = Roughly 28 hours
    If you have Shaw high speed extreme, which offers a 15 Mbit/sec connection, you should be able to download 100 GB/day without using the maximum assigned bandwidth.

    It once again illustrates how damaging the use of bandwidth can be to a network. If anything we should be talking about bandwidth billing instead of usage billing.
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    I am totally confused by all this.

    Can someone explain, why when we are on mobile internet, it is so expensive?

    We pay $60.00 per month for up to 10 GB. After that, we have to pay 15 cents per MB, which when calculated, would cost $155.00 for a GB.

    I wish we could have a choice with internet service but we can't. Dial up is out of the question. Expensive and incredibly slow. Explornet allows you 200 MB per day usage, then they kind of shut you down.

    I wish we had a cap of 100 GB. Then we could watch some YouTube, Videos, download music. We don't because we are afraid of the extra cost for going over our measly quota.

    I don't suppose we have a chance complaining to CRTC???

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 View Post
    How do you differ bandwidth usage and data traffic?
    Think of a garden hose and a pail.

    If you have a small diameter hose you can only fill the pail so fast, but if you get a wider hose you can fill it much faster. That's bandwidth.

    If you left the tap on all the time, the bigger hose might fill a thousand pails in a month, while the smaller hose may only fill a hundred. That's usage.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Noyance View Post
    I am totally confused by all this.

    Can someone explain, why when we are on mobile internet, it is so expensive?

    We pay $60.00 per month for up to 10 GB. After that, we have to pay 15 cents per MB, which when calculated, would cost $155.00 for a GB.

    I wish we could have a choice with internet service but we can't. Dial up is out of the question. Expensive and incredibly slow. Explornet allows you 200 MB per day usage, then they kind of shut you down.

    I wish we had a cap of 100 GB. Then we could watch some YouTube, Videos, download music. We don't because we are afraid of the extra cost for going over our measly quota.

    I don't suppose we have a chance complaining to CRTC???
    Mobile internet is a different story. Mobile uses a wireless spectrum to transmit data, and it's limited to how much data it can transfer.
    Wireless spectrums are limited in availability, so it becomes almost impossible to upgrade a mobile network to compensate for higher capacity.
    So they have to limit how much data you can download by making it prohibitly expensive to go over a certain limit.
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Thank you for the answer, Hans.

    Not happy with it but thanks anyway. Maybe one day, I highly doubt, we will have Shaw or something out here.

    Bell.....well I would like to say what they can do, but I will get banned for life. Can I say that I detest Bell Canada immensely and I would not recommend them to anyone? They are such..... GRRRRRRR! That is all I can say. I have two choices: Take it (Bell) or leave it.
    Unfortunately they know it, too!

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    Well, it looks like Shaw is getting cold feet.

    http://shaw.ca/Internet/New-Data-Usage/
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  18. #78
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    It boils down to lack of competition in our area. I wonder how this ISP can offer lower prices with no caps (prices even better than TekSavvy):

    http://www.yak.ca/high-speed-internet

    Unfortunately Yak does not have their Internet service in SSM. If Yak had these prices and services all over Ontario, guess what would happen to the prices of other ISPs?....hmmmmm...major monopoly......

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Anybody else upset about Usage Based Billing coming to Shaw Feb 1st

    OpenMedia.ca has obtained a conference call between Shaw executives and shareholders. The call reveals that the telecom giant will go ahead with a metered Internet pricing scheme after the election.

    We need all the major political parties to make a commitment to fix the growing problem of out-of-control Internet fees.

    That’s why OpenMedia.ca asked each of the parties to outline their plan of action in our all-party Digital Future Survey. We received answers from every major federal party...with the exception of the Conservative Party of Canada.

    Please tell Stephen Harper and your local Conservative candidate you want a response to OpenMedia.ca’s digital future survey now.

    The Internet is elemental to our economy, jobs and social progress - you deserve to know where all the parties stand so you can make an informed voting decision. Don’t let the Conservatives leave you in the dark.

    For our digital future,

    Lindsey and the OpenMedia.ca Team

    P.S. OpenMedia.ca relies on support from Canadians so we can continue to hold politicians and big telecom to account. Please chip in to support our work.

    OpenMedia.ca

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