Unclean spirits, devils

[hobo]

The bible mentions people with unclean spirits, divers diseases, lunatik, possessed with devils and a few other problms. Today many mental disorders are recognized as have specific causes not related to unclean spirits etc.. On the other hand there are people that have a definite "problem" that has caused them to do what most people would consider horrendous acts, or even lesser disgusting acts. If we have free will and can do as we want yet we are bound to our nature and desires how so is it for someone that is possessed of some unclean spirit, devil etc. Are some people today possessed by such things as devils and is it beyond their capability to reason or free will themselves out of the "problem"?

[dancingqueen]

100 years ago people believed evil spirits where responsible for mental illnesses, that has been shown incorrect, I do not believe people's behaviors or thoughts to be controlled by spirits, otherwise, one would wonder... what makes some people suseptable to this "take-over" and others not?

[hobo]

Possibly with more advances made in medicine/science all the ills of the mind/person/spirit will be understood. Still I wonder if it was possible for demons etc. to be cast out in the past, and I understand this is arguable, are there still such entities inhabiting humans.

[RWGR]

The Catholic Church believes in spirit possession. However, it believes it is very, very rare, and most of the time these situations can be explained rationally in scientific terms.

Unclean spirits were around in the time of Jesus. There is no reason to believe they have completely left mankind alone after that time.

[RWGR]

Possibly with more advances made in medicine/science all the ills of the mind/person/spirit will be understood. Still I wonder if it was possible for demons etc. to be cast out in the past, and I understand this is could arguable, are there still such entities inhabiting humans.

You may be interested in this:

http://www.amazon.com/Rite-Making-Mo.../dp/0385522703

[Bluesky]

I also believe in the existence of evil spirits an the possibility of possession.
Their medium is smoke and mirrors.

[hobo]

After the resserection was there a change in the direction evil spirits operated?

1 timothy 4: 1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"

False prophets among others?

[Bluesky]

I do not think that verse indicates a change as much as it sounds a warning that professing Christians are not immune from apostasizing, being led astray by "seducing spirits'. They always were 'seducing spirits'. Deception is their game, and the Devil is called the father of Lies.

[hobo]

Agree with you.

Corinthians 11:13-15 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

[KDawg]

I do not think that verse indicates a change as much as it sounds a warning that professing Christians are not immune from apostasizing, being led astray by "seducing spirits'. They always were 'seducing spirits'. Deception is their game, and the Devil is called the father of Lies.

Yes, and this is what the bible explicitly forbids...Deuteronomy 18:10-12:

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

[Blue Lotus Rising]

Yes, and this is what the bible explicitly forbids...Deuteronomy 18:10-12:

Phew, it's a good thing that the dead consult me then.

[KDawg]

Phew, it's a good thing that the dead consult me then.

Can you entertain the possibility that you're not actually consulting with the dead, that you're consulting with evil, deceptive spirits?

[Blue Lotus Rising]

Can you entertain the possibility that you're not actually consulting with the dead, that you're consulting with evil, deceptive spirits?

I don't seek communication, it happens.

[KDawg]

I don't seek communication, it happens.

OK. Can you entertain the possibility that during these times of communication, you're not actually communicating with the dead, that you're communicating with evil, deceptive spirits?

[dancingqueen]

Why do they have to be evil and deceptive?

[dancingqueen]

P.S, love the signature KDawg

[Soundbear]

Why do they have to be evil and deceptive?

Interesting. The bible teaches that spirits are evil and deceptive.

If one rejects the bible, then naturally, such a person must believe there are spirits that are good and helpful.

Good luck with that.

[dancingqueen]

Interesting. The bible teaches that spirits are evil and deceptive.

If one rejects the bible, then naturally, such a person must believe there are spirits that are good and helpful.

Good luck with that.

why must one that does not believe the Bible have to believe they are good and helpful?
Soundbear, if you want to discuss, do so, If you don't, then just sit it out, your presumptions and arrogant attitude does nothing to move any conversations forward these kinds of discussions are about critical thinking, and have potential to bring agnostics and theists together on certain areas when we can be civilized and mature. If critically thinking about your religion bothers you, I suggest you step out of the ring.

[Soundbear]

Your presumptions are always interesting. The tongue in cheek passed you by again.

So what DO you believe about spirits, after asking, "Why do they have to be evil and deceptive?"

[hobo]

So if we exclude those bible/Koran beliefs regarding unclean spirits, devils, jins etc. (not sure about other religions) wherein lies the expertise to rationalize the values of dealing with such things in a positive or negative manner? Is there something inherent in human nature, moralistic beliefs?