Don't Ask don't tell

[dancingqueen]

most work places dont care what your orientation is, please stop making it an issue or a topic of conversation !

Then don't make your orientation an issue or topic of conversation....
oh... and don't make an issue out of mine, or other people's....

[Mr belsito]

I never made an issue out of anyones orientation, everyone should be accepted for who they are, its nobodys business, it doesnt matter what you are is the point.

[RWGR]

and as I have found out... the USA is the only country IN THE WORLD to have ever made this discrimination, your presumptions about other solders sacrificing the gay ones first is not only ridiculous, but also ignorant and kinda disgusting.

I wonder if there is a correlation to the U.S. having the best fighting force all those years, too.

Just wondering...

[italiandomino]

now they will be fighting to get pink camo in there, will def ruin their reputation.

[gouligann]

Sorry, this is long, but this is what I think:

I think gay people are mostly relieved that they can finally come out, but are also nervous because they still feel different from the norm. There is still a lot of prejudism in the world. They feel normal and comfortable in places where gays socialize because they are surrounded by peers.

I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.
On the other hand, I have a few friends who are gay and they feel and act totally normal. They don't hide their orientation and are comfortable with themselves and it makes other people feel comfortable around them.

What I DO think hurts gay people and keeps prejudism alive and well, is the flamboyant parades and those that flaunt it on the street corners. What's the point? It says to me: "look at me, I'm gay"!!!! That kind of thing IMO hurts gay people who just want to live simple lives after coming out.
It is like saying that ALL Muslims are bad because Muslim terrorists bring a lot of attention to the race. Now we all know that all Muslims are not terrorists, and although it shouldn't happen, multitudes are prejudiced against the whole Muslim race because of the huge attention the terrorists get. Just the same as most gays don't prance down the street in pink tu=tus, but many people will think of the attention seekers when the word gay arises.



Some day, I hope gays don't have to think twice, be concerned, uncomfortable, embarrassed, or especially nervous of stating their orientation. With the way the world is changing, I think this will become a reality before too long. This is the way life is now, and that's the way it's going to be, and can only get better IMO.

[bilbo79]

There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them.

Sorry, this is long, but this is what I think:

I think gay people are mostly relieved that they can finally come out, but are also nervous because they still feel different from the norm. There is still a lot of prejudism in the world. They feel normal and comfortable in places where gays socialize because they are surrounded by peers.

I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.
On the other hand, I have a few friends who are gay and they feel and act totally normal. They don't hide their orientation and are comfortable with themselves and it makes other people feel comfortable around them.

What I DO think hurts gay people and keeps prejudism alive and well, is the flamboyant parades and those that flaunt it on the street corners. What's the point? It says to me: "look at me, I'm gay"!!!! That kind of thing IMO hurts gay people who just want to live simple lives after coming out.
It is like saying that ALL Muslims are bad because Muslim terrorists bring a lot of attention to the race. Now we all know that all Muslims are not terrorists, and although it shouldn't happen, multitudes are prejudiced against the whole Muslim race because of the huge attention the terrorists get. Just the same as most gays don't prance down the street in pink tu=tus, but many people will think of the attention seekers when the word gay arises.



Some day, I hope gays don't have to think twice, be concerned, uncomfortable, embarrassed, or especially nervous of stating their orientation. With the way the world is changing, I think this will become a reality before too long. This is the way life is now, and that's the way it's going to be, and can only get better IMO.

[gouligann]

Re:"There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them."

Hey, I don't give a damned if they wear nothing at all, but if they
1) don't want the attention and title of being "gay"
2) feel that they are treated differently than other people
then prancing down the street wearing a pink tu=tu just isn't quite the outfit to wear.

Unless people don't want to receive attention, then they shouldn't ask for it. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

[Soundbear]

I wonder if there is a correlation to the U.S. having the best fighting force all those years, too.

Just wondering...

No, there wouldn't be a correlation. Couldn't be, in fact.

A big gun doesn't make one a man.

[italiandomino]

A big gun doesn't make one a man.

Sure does make it more convincing.

[italiandomino]

There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them.

jealous of what ???
Just because we dont give a crap about them .. that is being ignorant ??

[dancingqueen]

I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.

So, you think that if people don't make a big deal of it, then conversations will flow normally... Then you follow up with an example of the opposite case?
You don't know what it's like, words are not the only form of communication. You know a guy who lives like this, I do live like this. In mixed company, do I say my partner and I, do I pretend my boyfriend is my friend and we just hang out? Or do I come right out and say it. People do not carry on as normal, we just don't. I don't even, it's been socialized into all of us. anyone that says otherwise is lying to themselves or to everyone else.

[dancingqueen]

Re:"There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them."

Hey, I don't give a damned if they wear nothing at all, but if they
1) don't want the attention and title of being "gay"
2) feel that they are treated differently than other people
then prancing down the street wearing a pink tu=tu just isn't quite the outfit to wear.

Unless people don't want to receive attention, then they shouldn't ask for it. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

That's just like saying "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"
Maybe some people like wearing pink.... I like the color... heaven forbid people wear what they feel comfortable in and not be labeled as seeking attention...

[gouligann]

So, you think that if people don't make a big deal of it, then conversations will flow normally... Then you follow up with an example of the opposite case?
You don't know what it's like, words are not the only form of communication. You know a guy who lives like this, I do live like this. In mixed company, do I say my partner and I, do I pretend my boyfriend is my friend and we just hang out? Or do I come right out and say it. People do not carry on as normal, we just don't. I don't even, it's been socialized into all of us. anyone that says otherwise is lying to themselves or to everyone else.

I'm not understanding where my "example of the opposite case" is?

In mixed company, sure why not say "my partner" DQ? He IS your partner. If you aren't afraid of homophobic comments and are proud of yourself and him, then act it. Can you not just say it and carry on without it becoming an issue at the time you say it? Are people so thoughtless? (I truly don't know, I'm not being sarcastic) It isn't as if you are so totally unique being gay these days. I'm like, "who cares" when I am introduced to a gay person?
Maybe you imagine that people are aghast at the thought of being around a gay man? Maybe they are? Most likely they aren't, but if they don't like it, then they can depart the conversation (unless being with a gay person (OH MY) is part of their job, family, etc) I say to hell with them, just focus on who you are and on being a good person, not on who you go home with.


Re: the pink comment. "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"

No, more like if you dress up like a tramp, then you get labeled as one. (no one EVER asks to be raped by the clothes they wear)
If you dress like a clown then people assume you are a clown. If you dress in a tu-tu, and prance down the street, then of course people will assume you are gay. Just saying...

I wear pink, male friends and relatives wear pink shirts, and I certainly don't look think geeze, they're gay because they wear pink. It's the tu-tu that kind of lets the cat out of the bag lol.

[dancingqueen]

I'm not understanding where my "example of the opposite case" is?

In mixed company, sure why not say "my partner" DQ? He IS your partner. If you aren't afraid of homophobic comments and are proud of yourself and him, then act it. Can you not just say it and carry on without it becoming an issue at the time you say it? Are people so thoughtless? (I truly don't know, I'm not being sarcastic) It isn't as if you are so totally unique being gay these days. I'm like, "who cares" when I am introduced to a gay person?
Maybe you imagine that people are aghast at the thought of being around a gay man? Maybe they are? Most likely they aren't, but if they don't like it, then they can depart the conversation (unless being with a gay person (OH MY) is part of their job, family, etc) I say to hell with them, just focus on who you are and on being a good person, not on who you go home with.


Re: the pink comment. "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"

No, more like if you dress up like a tramp, then you get labeled as one. (no one EVER asks to be raped by the clothes they wear)
If you dress like a clown then people assume you are a clown. If you dress in a tu-tu, and prance down the street, then of course people will assume you are gay. Just saying...

I wear pink, male friends and relatives wear pink shirts, and I certainly don't look think geeze, they're gay because they wear pink. It's the tu-tu that kind of lets the cat out of the bag lol.

Your relative gets treated very differently even though they don't make it an issue....
"My partner"???? no, because he is not my "partner" I work on projects with a "partner" I play tennis with a "partner" do you call your significant other your "partner"? do most people? no.

and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships??? I relate tu-tu's to ballet, what that has to do with being gay, I don't have a clue.
I know many other gay people that have no interest in ballet... or pink for that matter....

[Blunt]

Don't ask don't tell was a good policy. No one should care about someone else's sexuality. Why do gays have the need to be able to go parading around making it known they're gay?

[dancingqueen]

Don't ask don't tell was a good policy. No one should care about someone else's sexuality. Why do gays have the need to be able to go parading around making it known they're gay?

Same reason straight people do the same. some do it more than others, but people take pride in who they are, and pride makes people "parade around" in various areas of who they are.

[Dragonfly]

I dont understand the need for gay ppl to be out in the open ?? really .. i watched the news and all of the sudden military ppl are "my name is ______ and I am gay".

like really. Who cares.

Your in a squad of 20 guys and your the only gay one, guess who the other 19 are going to sacrifice first. In a culture where being in the military is cool and tough and macho .. why would you want to be prouncing (sp) around wearing your pink camo uniform when there are angry terrorists who are looking for a good target. I dont get it.

Seriously? Then I ask wth italians got on the friggen boat

[gouligann]

Your relative gets treated very differently even though they don't make it an issue....
"My partner"???? no, because he is not my "partner" I work on projects with a "partner" I play tennis with a "partner" do you call your significant other your "partner"? do most people? no.
Ok, so call him whatever you want, (that's something you two need to figure out what to publicly call each other) but don't hide it and don't be ashamed, worried or embarrassed, is what I'm trying to say.

and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships??? I relate tu-tu's to ballet, what that has to do with being gay, I don't have a clue.
I know many other gay people that have no interest in ballet... or pink for that matter....

RE: and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships???
I meant the ones in pink tu=tu's in a gay parade, not on stage.

My relative gets treated differently because they DO make it an issue. It is his parents who are scared that he will be singled out should he ever move back to the Soo. I say, if he comes back, just for him to act himself, not to dwell on the fact that he is gay, and no one will give a shiat. They are just instilling this fear of living in a smaller community into him by worrying about and voicing those issues to him. It's like trying to hide it either from fear or embarrassment, which does nothing for his orientation or ego. Back into the closet you go, safely living in another big city.

[dancingqueen]

RE: and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships???
I meant the ones in pink tu=tu's in a gay parade, not on stage.

People wear other things in a parade... does that make them gay in nature???
I don't understand what you are trying to say here then. I mean, if they are in a parade, then they clearly want attention... That's what parades are for....

My relative gets treated differently because they DO make it an issue. It is his parents who are scared that he will be singled out should he ever move back to the Soo. I say, if he comes back, just for him to act himself, not to dwell on the fact that he is gay, and no one will give a shiat. They are just instilling this fear of living in a smaller community into him by worrying about and voicing those issues to him. It's like trying to hide it either from fear or embarrassment, which does nothing for his orientation or ego. Back into the closet you go, safely living in another big city.

Your relative does not make their sexuality an issue, but others still do... How does this do anything but dispel your thought that if gay people don't make their sexuality an issue others won't?

[gouligann]

People wear other things in a parade... does that make them gay in nature???
I don't understand what you are trying to say here then. I mean, if they are in a parade, then they clearly want attention... That's what parades are for....



Your relative does not make their sexuality an issue, but others still do... How does this do anything but dispel your thought that if gay people don't make their sexuality an issue others won't?

Ok, I can't go further with this, since I'm not knowledged enough.