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Thread: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

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    Senior Member Roll The Bones's Avatar
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    Default Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    you know who you are...

    http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/04...hinking-study/

    "VANCOUVER — A University of British Columbia study suggests analytical thinking can be harmful to religious faith.

    The psychology report, published Thursday in the prestigious journal Science, reveals that religious belief drops after subjects perform analytical tasks or are exposed to Auguste Rodin’s sculpture, The Thinker.

    However, UBC social psychologists Will Gervais and Ara Norenzayan insist they are not debunking religion or promoting atheism. Instead, they are trying to figure out the psychological origins of spirituality.

    The dynamic UBC research duo, who have earned international reputations for their groundbreaking studies into religion in the past six years, maintain all humans use two valuable types of thinking — intuitive and analytical.

    How much you rely on one kind of thinking over another generally determines how religious you are. People who are highly intuitive tend to be more religious.

    Intuitive thinking helps people recognize the difference between the body and the mind, imagine life after death and discern purposes in the universe, said Will Gervais, lead author of the article, titled “Analytic Thinking Promotes Religious Disbelief”.

    In contrast, analytic thinking reduces intuitions of God, of an afterlife and of experiences of divine presence, say Gervais and Norenzayan, whose latest research surveyed 650 people, mostly from B.C. Some lived in other parts of North America.

    “Our study builds on previous research that links religious beliefs to ‘intuitive’ thinking. Our findings suggest that activating the ‘analytic’ cognitive system in the brain can undermine the ‘intuitive’ support for religious belief, at least temporarily,” said Norenzayan, an associate psychology professor."
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Makes me wonder why some analytical thinkers can't see past some of those really dumb atheist ideas.
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    why are they "dumb"?
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Roll The Bones View Post
    why are they "dumb"?
    Off the top of my head, and not to be in any way insulting, I'll grab that sig, as an example.

    "Fate is just the weight of circumstances."

    No, it's not. The consequences of a life lived generously, kindly and well lead to "circumstances" like peace of mind and heart, and a joy that goes way beyond happiness.

    Never mind the old "something from nothing" argument.
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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    How interesting, Blue, from your site.

    "My first thought when I read the opening of this article was, “I guess it depends on what information is available for you to analyze!” If an analytical person has only heard rational arguments against religion, but never for religion, it would be no surprise if he were to be less religious. But after reading how the study was conducted (as explained in the excerpt above), I think it might show something else. And sadly, it would make sense in our culture today."

    End of this thread, I'll bet.
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    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    Off the top of my head, and not to be in any way insulting, I'll grab that sig, as an example.

    "Fate is just the weight of circumstances."

    No, it's not. The consequences of a life lived generously, kindly and well lead to "circumstances" like peace of mind and heart, and a joy that goes way beyond happiness.

    Never mind the old "something from nothing" argument.
    That's lame Barry, really lame. Consequences are the result of something or circumstnaces. So in Roll the Bones signature look at it this way... Fate is the consequence of a series of events, or circumstances.

    In your sentence the circumstances are living generously, kindly, and well. The consequence is peace of mind and heart etc...

    When used together in a sentence a consequence doesn't precede the circumstances surrounding it. Although a consequence of one event can be a circumstance that leads to another and so on.
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

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    Senior Member Roll The Bones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilistic Heathen View Post
    That's lame Barry, really lame. Consequences are the result of something or circumstnaces. So in Roll the Bones signature look at it this way... Fate is the consequence of a series of events, or circumstances.

    In your sentence the circumstances are living generously, kindly, and well. The consequence is peace of mind and heart etc...

    When used together in a sentence a consequence doesn't precede the circumstances surrounding it. Although a consequence of one event can be a circumstance that leads to another and so on.
    Thanks for the back-up.

    It's about making your own fate, to a certain extent. Like choosing to live a life "generously, kindly and well". That is a circumstance that we as individuals control. Some do live life that way, and some don't. Your fate will be handed out based on those choices. That being said, we obviously don't control all circumstances, but even the ones we don't control still weigh on our fate.

    For example, its a bright sunny day, much like today. I decide to ride the motorcycle around for a bit. I have made the choice to ride - this is my circumstance. Other circumstances surround me as I ride along - like the teenager who's driving his dad's car, has the music full blast, is texting while he drives. These circumstances belong to the young man - they are his choices. Let's say that he decides to make a left turn and crosses into my lane right in front of me. This is a circumstance that I have no control over - my fate is to perhaps hit the car as it turns in front of me. The weight of all these circumstances - mine and others - produce my fate. Kapow!

    It's like that for all of us, no matter how "generously, kindly and well" we live.
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Unless I misunderstand, fate is just chance. Correct??

    But i don't believe that our lives run strictly on chance.

    The choice I make to trust in God in all circumstances leads to the consequence of joy that I mentioned.

    I'm sorry if, once again, I don't explain how I feel about this very well.
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    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    Unless I misunderstand, fate is just chance. Correct??

    But i don't believe that our lives run strictly on chance.

    The choice I make to trust in God in all circumstances leads to the consequence of joy that I mentioned.

    I'm sorry if, once again, I don't explain how I feel about this very well.
    No Barry, fate is not chance it's an outcome. You could believe that we arrive at our fate strictly by chance or that it is predetermined. You could also even believe it's a combination of both. No matter how you look at it, fate is an outcome or a consequence.

    The thing is Barry, even you would have to acknowledge that fate is the weight of circumstances. To a christian not believing in god is a circumstance that will lead to a different fate than one who does believe in him. The resulting fate is weighed by ones belief or lack thereof.

    Is it starting to make sense now Baryy?
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Nicely put...
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Meanwhile, back on topic:




    Comments??
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    Meanwhile, back on topic:

    Comments??
    I dunno what to say Barry. I'm sure your intuition leads you to agree with her, but if you were to be a little more analytical you would find some, if not most, of what she is saying is wanting. Wanting to believe intuition or intuitive thinking is rational, which kind of defies what intuition is.

    I mean the fact alone that she claims to have arrived at her belief by being analytical then goes on to defend intuitive thinking should be somewhat revealing in itself, don't you think.

    But the question is, are we more or less reasonable when our intuition is inhibited? The former is often assumed (the researchers suggest this, citing how intuitive thinking led participants to incorrect answers when it was used in matters like math, where I agree it ought not be applied), but I don’t think it’s justified overall since we actually need intuitive thinking in order to apprehend certain truths about reality.
    So what she is saying that certain truth's require intuitive thinking. But earlier on she says... "it was only when I started thinking analytically about religion that I became convinced Christianity is true."

    Don't you see the irony here? More than likely she found analytical arguments for the existence of god that reinforced her intuition that god exists. I mean she does go as far to say that certain truths require intuition right.

    Personally I think she should of paid more attention to the first few paragraphs in the first link she provided in her blog.

    The study, which is published in the April 27 issue of Science, finds that thinking analytically increases disbelief among believers and skeptics alike, shedding important new light on the psychology of religious belief....

    “A combination of complex factors influence matters of personal spirituality, and these new findings suggest that the cognitive system related to analytic thoughts is one factor that can influence disbelief.”
    That is a gold mine in itself, first it puts non-believers and believers in the same playing field("thinking analytically increases disbelief among believers and skeptics alike"). The second quote actually downplays the implications and is an actual quote from one of the researchers. I'm sure ... could have done a better job himself.
    Last edited by Barry Morris; 05-01-2012 at 08:11 AM. Reason: possible name violation
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    I have to wonder if "disbelief is the correct term.

    For example, you might hope that the analytical thinking proposed as an "antidote" to my religious belief has reduced my belief. But is belief reduced when the a Christian believer reconsiders the importance of certain widely held views among many Christians. For instance, non-believers here attack the bible record regularly as ancient, non-applicable and scientifically impossible. But do I believe that I need to understand and believe every detail in it?? No, IMO my understanding of scripture does not need to be complete. A submission to God is the foundation of what I believe.
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    Senior Member Roll The Bones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious belief reduced by analytical thinking: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    A submission to God is the foundation of what I believe.
    that might be your intuition talking... not that there's anything wrong with it...
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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