Why?

[GenX]

Since the inception of the Catholic Church with Peter as the first Bishop...

Rome rose and declined as a world power

Carthage rose and declined as a world power

Constantinople rose and declined as a world power

The Ming Dynasty rose and declined as a world power

Persia has rose and declined as a world power

The Italian City-States have rose and declined as a world power

The Dutch has rose and declined as a world power

Spain has rose and declined as a world power

Portugal has rose and declined as a world power

France has rose and declined as a world power

Great Britain has rose and declined as a world power

Russia has rose and declined as a world power


Man-made entities, all.



How is it that this supposedly “man-made” institution known as the Catholic Church has survived all this time? What makes it different?

Earthly powers have come and gone during her existence...but she goes nowhere. Still a part of world history today just as she was almost 2,000 year ago. How?

Protestantism was three years old before its first major split. Now there are over 40,000 Protestant denominations.

The Catholic Church had a major split with the Church of the east; but this was not over fundamental doctrine, it was over papal primacy. The West and East churches believe even today in the fundamentals of Catholic faith, which is centered on the Holy Eucharist.

Why has the Catholic Church survived, when everything else around her has come and gone?

[Hans]

Other religions have not come and gone, so I see it as something that's part of religion.

[GenX]

Well, that certainly is a very strong and commendable positive for religion then.

But I think you're missing something, Hans.

Does Buddhism have a central authority like Catholicism? Does Hinduism? Does Shintoism? Does Islam have a central authority that can compare to the Roman Catholic Church?

The answer, obviously, is no.

So that takes our initial question to an even deeper level: how is it the Roman Catholic Church has survived to this day, with all its seeming bureaucracy and central authority? Certainly all the man-made governmental institutions mentioned previously have had much in common with the Roman Catholic Church as far as central authority and bureaucracy is concerned.

Why does the Church still stand, and not only stand but continue to be a major player in world events, while all the other institutions and governments have been set upon the trash heap of history?

[Hans]

I believe Islam is a much bigger player in current world events then the Church is.

[GenX]

Radical Islam is making news. Whole different ballgame.

[Larimar]

Does Buddhism have a central authority like Catholicism? Does Hinduism? Does Shintoism? Does Islam have a central authority that can compare to the Roman Catholic Church?"

what's this a case of ?
My powers better than your power?
My gods better than your god?
my society can make a king outta a pope with golden statues, and yours can't?

Silly really.
You see, if Jesus really was alive today he'd tell the pope to sell all those jewels and gold he has(or tel lthe vatican or whatever that stuffs about) and help the poor and to follow him. Would he not?

Buddhism teaches people to stay away from materials...so is it fair to say they have no central power , or they have no huge institution full of gold and power so God MUST not be on their side?


Rather backwards to me.
An institution is being held up with money, more money, and power...
That's why the Catholic church has survived.
Institutions in society today have less and less to do with spirituality , faith and God. God is not based on money. And so it is done that many eastern religions have no huge temple-and many do not seperate themselves into sects and disagreements on their holy book either. Some do-but many also do not.
They have their temples, they go there to pray and worship God. They are not worried about power , money, or fame.
If this post is to say Catholics are better b.c they have an institution that is fammed and still stands still..this proves nothing at all.

I believe- Many other religions have their central authority on their originals leaders-and teachers. Gurus, Buddha, and their own holy books.

Christians may have a reason to stick to this line of thought also. That the only central authority they should have is their holybook with God's Word-perhaps a spokes person-but a building? an institute? that means what ??


The Bible is to be the final authority in the Christian religion-in my opinion. Just as other religions have their own central authority. Power, money, and fame ...mean nothing. This just means that b.c you don't "know" what their central authorit may be and how they prefer to run things-it means Catholics are winning some race???
This is what your post sounds like..religions under some competition.


It's not.












I respect that you think so highly of an institute-but that is not what's important to God-not in my belief it's not, but to each his own I suppose.

[GenX]

You totally misrepresented the thread.

Your post comes off angry. You make silly generalizations and unsupportable claims.

Why don't you calm down, and then try to answer the question?

[Larimar]

Why do you think people aren't calm the moment they don't agree with you? it's the internet-I won't be getting in a twist over anything, especially not a board like this one.
I'm perfectly calm thankyou.

If you would like to elaborate on your thread and make it more clear-maybe that would be a great idea [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[GenX]

It's a simple question: why has the RCC survived?

You gave silly and juvenile explanations (have the pope sell his jewelry; money and power)

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Bible is to be the final authority in the Christian religion </div></div>

Catholics believe that, too; but also believe Tradition works alongside the Bible..in tandem, not in tension.

Those who believe only the Bible, however, have been around for 1,500 years less than the RCC, yet are split into 40,000 different denominations. Why is that? Is the Bible that vague?


Seems the Bible says a lot and is quite open to differing interpretations.

[Larimar]

It's not silly, and answered your question perfectly from my point of view. The RCC is still surviving b.c it has so much power. Money is power, it helps a lot when something has wealth.

I do not think it would survive today if they did the rightious thing and gave it all away/ It's the same reason te White House is still standing.
Everything that stands up today as a huge institute is standing on either fame or money and possibly both.

Lots of religions have survived without huge institutes, and what about them?

You can think i'm juvenile all you want Parrot.

The Western world put a lot of money behind certain religions to build huge buildings and churches and places of worship-but to me that money should be spent on something more productive.

Like I said, you can disagree with me all you want-and perhaps I STILL am not understanding your point-however it's up to the poster to be clear and say what they want to know. You asked why did they survive , and brought other religions into it-and I really don't understand the point you are trying to make other than what I answered already.

[GenX]

Did the Vatican have more money than any of those superpower nations I mentioned?

In order for your theory to be true the Vatican would have to be more wealthy than any of those past super powers, because even with all their wealth they still declined and faded away.

[Larimar]

I do not have a historical background in those areas to answer your question. All I know is that they are not religions-and why do you feel the RCC is a world power? I did not know this-I'm certaintly not under their power... neither is half the world..so I'm not sure still what you are meaning..I'd also have to ask you how long did the other insitutes stay up in power for? and then question why you don't feel the White House is a world power that's more powerful than any catholic institute-and that's probably not going to fall apart any time soon.
What I don't understand is-why does it matter their institute still stands?
I don't know how much money the other powers had or how they lost their power and money-but I have seen estimates that the Roman Cathoilic church holds 139 million dollars -I have read "The priesthood takes vows of poverty but the upper echelon cardinals and the pope live like literal kings. "

So yah.my question to you would be -would they still be standing if they gave all that money to the poor? Would they have aleg to stand on if they had nothing but a place of worship, a bible and a floor to sit on? They've been running for so many years /centuries and that's why, i'm told anyways-that they have so much wealth...so umm....was jesus about keeping it inside a building ..****ding it?


anyways, most of what you named off were countries and places-not religions... so no I don't see the comparisson. there's many religions still standing today that don't Neeeeed to be in power or feel they are authorities over the world-b.c they are too busy worshipping their god to care.


do you understand my point of view now? or am i still being juvenile?
oh well.
Sometimes there's no real true answer only a question of why does it matter?

moving along i guess.

[Larimar]

Don't get me wrong though, I think they should be earning money, I think their artwork SHOULD stand alone and not be sold-I think what they are doing is fine and dandy-but I'd be lying if I said I thought it stood up on it's faith and God alone.


ARe they turning towards being more of a business and power though, then a religion and faith?

[The Berean]

Not much longer if they run it like a business. They have paid out millions in abuse claims

[GenX]

I never said they were a world power in the sense those countries were. Obviously a Church and a country are not the same. I'm making the comparison between the RCC and these past world super powers, not because the RCC is a world power, but because the RCC's critics consider her a man-made institution.

Okay, fine. Let's compare her to the largest, richest, most powerful man-made institutions (governments) in history. Out of all the super powers none has survived even a tenth of the time the RCC has. How can that be? Obviously man-made institutions have a finite lifespan.

You say it is "power". Certainly little can compare to the power that was once the Holy Roman Empire. At one time her power encompassed almost 1/3 of the entire world. No such amalgamation of power had existed before, and it is a sure bet will never exist again.

You say money in the reason. Who can compare to the financial treasures and wealth of Great Britain in her prime? Her empire was so large, so encompassing, that it was said the sun never set on the British empire; her reach went as far as Africa, Asia, and North America. The world has never seen such an exclusive grasp of wealth, before or since.

But these man-made governments and institutions that operated within these power centers of unimaginable power eventually declined.

Yet the Roman Catholic Church existed before and after these examples of the greatest power and wealth the world has ever known.

Why?

What makes this supposed 'man-made' institution survive when even the others have declined and withered from the vine?

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ConKat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much longer if they run it like a business. They have paid out millions in abuse claims </div></div>

Click Here

[Larimar]

I would hav eto know what made them decline I suppose, again I have no historical information on the subjects at hand.

[GenX]

Then why make so careless a claim as "money and wealth" as being the obvious reasons why the RCC still survives?

Certainly a working knowledge of how both effect countries and large institutions would be needed in order to make a pronouncement as you did, would it not?

That's why I said your original reply was inadequate. It was pretty clear you just threw out some basic criticism of any large entity and hoped it would stick.

[GenX]

I'd like to see you address this. We were going so fast you probably missed it originally

"Those who believe only the Bible, however, have been around for 1,500 years less than the RCC, yet are split into 40,000 different denominations. Why is that? Is the Bible that vague?"