A Bridge Between Two Worlds

[Bluesky]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...wo-worlds.html

I was a grumpy and frankly rather arrogant atheist. I was totally convinced that there was no God, and that anyone who thought there was needed to be locked up for her own good. I was majoring in the sciences at high school and had won a scholarship to study chemistry at Oxford University, beginning in October 1971. I had every reason to believe that studying the sciences further would confirm my rampant godlessness. While waiting to go up to Oxford, I decided to work my way through a pile of "improving books." Needless to say, none of them were religious...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...wo-worlds.html

[NewCasa]

Interesting that it's so often Christians vs. Atheists. Not very many Atheists in the world I think.

And once again, belief in 'god' or 'gods' doesn't even come close to making someone a Christian.

[Soundbear]

Interesting that it's so often Christians vs. Atheists. Not very many Atheists in the world I think.

And once again, belief in 'god' or 'gods' doesn't even come close to making someone a Christian.

Was Job a Christian??

[NewCasa]

Was Job a Christian??

I have no idea. That'd be a biblical question. My guess would be no since he lived prior to the whole Christ thingy.


Your point?

[Soundbear]

I have no idea. That'd be a biblical question. My guess would be no since he lived prior to the whole Christ thingy.


Your point?

Quite right. He DID live before Christ. Not even Jewish, as far as we know. But a man of Gode, nonetheless.

So what is important, a title, Christian, or a submission to God??

[NewCasa]

Quite right. He DID live before Christ. Not even Jewish, as far as we know. But a man of Gode, nonetheless.

So what is important, a title, Christian, or a submission to God??

In the case of your beliefs it's the 'submission' part I have trouble with.

As for the other part, let me rephrase for your benefit: read "Christian" as "God in the Christian Bible". Being that the Christians have adopted both old and new as the basis for their beliefs one can assume that in todays' terms one whom believes in the Bible as being the 'word of God' would be a Christian.

[Soundbear]

In the case of your beliefs it's the 'submission' part I have trouble with.

As for the other part, let me rephrase for your benefit: read "Christian" as "God in the Christian Bible". Being that the Christians have adopted both old and new as the basis for their beliefs one can assume that in todays' terms one whom believes in the Bible as being the 'word of God' would be a Christian.

The submission to God is IMO, the basis of the Christian's belief. When a person begins, in submission, to reach out to God, he becomes at that instant, God's child. He might not even know how to read, or even have seen a bible. But God knows the heart, and will lead that person to Himself, regardless of how much he might learn in his life.

It's possible that one might hold the belief you mention, and not be a child of God. After all, Satan and his angels have no doubt as to Whose Word it is.

[NewCasa]

The submission to God is IMO, the basis of the Christian's belief. When a person begins, in submission, to reach out to God, he becomes at that instant, God's child. He might not even know how to read, or even have seen a bible. But God knows the heart, and will lead that person to Himself, regardless of how much he might learn in his life.

It's possible that one might hold the belief you mention, and not be a child of God. After all, Satan and his angels have no doubt as to Whose Word it is.

Do you mean to imply that all those who do not believe what you do are basically only fit for hell?

[Bluesky]

Odd. That article was available in its entirety when I posted the OP. Now it isn't.
Odd to, how the IDEAS of an article are seldom discussed. Suddenly it becomes in your face, confrontational. And that is not the spirit in which I ever intend to post. I like discussing ideas, not "I'm right, you're wrong."

[NewCasa]

Odd. That article was available in its entirety when I posted the OP. Now it isn't.
Odd to, how the IDEAS of an article are seldom discussed. Suddenly it becomes in your face, confrontational. And that is not the spirit in which I ever intend to post. I like discussing ideas, not "I'm right, you're wrong."

Sorry Bluesky. I'll but out and let the Christians discuss.

[Bluesky]

Actually, I thought your point was valid. It was what followed that was kinda the same old...

[NewCasa]

Actually, I thought your point was valid. It was what followed that was kinda the same old...

Ahh ok well thanks for clearing that one up!

[bilbo79]

Well at least this threads death was relatively quick.

Protip: Bluesky, if you wish to discuss the particular merits of a position feel free to start it off with a statement or a question instead of adding nothing and then complaining that people aren't discussing it the way you like.

Or take your ball and go home, I don't care.

[Soundbear]

Do you mean to imply that all those who do not believe what you do are basically only fit for hell?

I prefer a more positive position.

Submit to God, be with God.

[NewCasa]

I prefer a more positive position.

Submit to God, be with God.

That would be avoidance of the question.

[Soundbear]

That would be avoidance of the question.

IMO, not at all.

Many times it is said that God sends sinners to hell. I believe that to be inaccurate, at best.

God is holy, and will not allow sin into His presence. And, in eternity, NOT being with God is hell.

[The Voice]

IMO, not at all.

Many times it is said that God sends sinners to hell. I believe that to be inaccurate, at best.

God is holy, and will not allow sin into His presence. And, in eternity, NOT being with God is hell.

But SB is God not all knowing and all seeing?

Surely when he created the world 5000 years ago he must have known the suffering man would create?

[Bluesky]

IMO, not at all.

Many times it is said that God sends sinners to hell. I believe that to be inaccurate, at best.

God is holy, and will not allow sin into His presence. And, in eternity, NOT being with God is hell.

If God is the judge, and eternity in hell is the judgment, then the obvious answer is...

SB, when you keep saying that God doesn't send sinners to hell, it is like me saying that Johnny Fastfingers was caught stealing money out of the till, and was arrested, and the judge sent him tp prison to pay for his crime.

It is silly to argue that the judge didn't send him there. Johnny FF chose to go there for refusing to keep the law.

In reality BOTH are true.

You act as if God would somehow be culpable for sending people to hell. He is not unjust for doing so, so don't be afraid to own up to the truth. God sends people to hell.
God needs no defence.

[Soundbear]

If God is the judge, and eternity in hell is the judgment, then the obvious answer is...

SB, when you keep saying that God doesn't send sinners to hell, it is like me saying that Johnny Fastfingers was caught stealing money out of the till, and was arrested, and the judge sent him tp prison to pay for his crime.

It is silly to argue that the judge didn't send him there. Johnny FF chose to go there for refusing to keep the law.

In reality BOTH are true.

You act as if God would somehow be culpable for sending people to hell. He is not unjust for doing so, so don't be afraid to own up to the truth. God sends people to hell.
God needs no defence.

IMO, a judge will never say "Depart from Me, I never knew you". It is his JOB to apply the law, which says, do the crime, do the time.

The culpability of God was never in question, to me. No, He's not unjust. But, as I said, and believe, NOT being with God in eternity will be hell. Does He "send" people?? Not necessary.

A different point of view, especially in light of the constant harping about "God sending, etc".

[Soundbear]

But SB is God not all knowing and all seeing?

Surely when he created the world 5000 years ago he must have known the suffering man would create?

5000 years?? Where did that come from??

As to the characteristics of God, no point in arguing a fantasy, from your point of view, is there???

The reality to the believer is that what you question is a mystery.

And as to suffering, there is no group of people anywhere or anytime that works harder to alleviate man's suffering than the Christian.

edit to add a question, what part of your ideals does this offend??