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Thread: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

  1. #81
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    I think there is quite a bit of religious involvement in politics simply by the number of those in official leadership who do claim a religion and membership.

    It is a source of votes for those who think in terms of trying to manipulate their election outcomes.

    Would you kindly keep in mind that I really do not know how many elected Officials belong to a religion.

    It sure does seem like that to me even when the religious part is often not openly talked about by those who have one.

    If you think more about it the gay issue would not have otherwise been in the forefront neither in Canadian nor US politics.

    That has been in recent history.

  2. #82
    Senior Member NewCasa's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    And you are not??
    Completely.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    For NH:

    "Yet Canadian media have so far largely ignored the story and most churches are uncomfortable drawing attention to themselves. Canadian congregations traditionally shy away from politics as too worldly, MacDonald said. Besides, he added, people feel that it's "unchristian to cause a stink, unless there's a really good reason."

    "But more important than just the cost issue, it seems to me, is the blatant discrimination against religious groups in general, and Christian churches in particular," said Julian Freeman, pastor of Grace Fellowship Church of East Toronto, a church plant of 70 that meets at Greenland Public School in the North York district in the city."

    http://flpbd.it/iFHb6
    A quick google search lists a bunch of "mainstream" Canadian news sites with this story.

    TDSB director Chris Spence was at a loss to explain why the groups weren't notified of the fee hikes and change of category until days before they took effect. He said the decision followed a “long public process’’ and he was “trying to piece together some of the communication around that ... but I’m drawing a bit of a blank.’’

    However, the board’s rationale was a “tough fiscal decision’’ driven by TDSB’s $110 million deficit, he said. Spence said the board is still subsidizing permit users by $8 million
    The TDSB is running a $110 million dollar deficit and some church groups are crying because they wont continue to subsidise their rent. Talk about selfish.

    TDSB spokesman Ryan Bird said he couldn't speak to the exact timing of the letters, but noted "it's been an open and public process since the beginning of the year."

    The reclassification isn't targeting faith-based groups, as other larger adult groups, including sports organizations are affected, Bird said.
    So, it's not really discriminatory against christian church groups but all religious groups and some other non religious organizations.
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

  4. #84
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    All rental groups treated exactly the same?? I think not. But that's the way it should be, if you want to say it's fair.

    As to selfish, look into some of the costs involved. And apparently the care staff at the facilities are just as ticked off by the greed of the TDSB.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Challange accepted....

    The Board charges fees for permits and currently incurs an $11M loss on permit revenues compared to costs. The Ministry has provided funding through the Priority Schools Initiative to offset the costs of permits for non-profit groups, but it is a fixed amount each year. If permits are not cost recovery, the Board must redirect the funding intended to support care, cleaning and maintenance of schools during regular day school hours to subsidize permit fees. The Board approved a permit fee report in February 2011 which proposed an annual increase to permit fees to allow the Board to account for annual inflationary increases to its costs.
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

  6. #86
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Any School Board should have a generic grocery list, that breaks down all available facilities, and the exact cost for each of those facilities, and that price should be the same for whoever wants to rent the space.

    Once an application goes in, the Board can use their discretionary powers to decide if the use is appropriate for a school setting, but to have different price lists based on religion, is a violation of the Human Right Code, where it state clearly that no one can discriminate against anyone, based on religion.
    Currently being ignored: The Voice, The Official Cat of Soonet, Barry Morris, and Aristotle.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    My is this ever a difficult topic to handle in terms of trying to dissect it through language.

    Not all fellow posters or readers have the same meaning for the word discrimination nor the same views about the application of the charter.

    The way I see it no matter whatever ~ religion is a big part of politics ~and visa-versa.

    That reality is not clearly verbalized much to the Public from within either's administration because it could seriously affect the number of members in congregations and votes in the political sector.

    Naturally, I really don't know who already knew this and am not trying to insult anyone's intelligence or awareness of what's going on in this World.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    This is not about discrimination. The TDSB is running a defecit, it needs to cut costs. They recieve three million dollars from the ON Gov. for subsidies for the Community use of Schools program, they are aready subsidising more than they can afford. What they decided was they are only going to subsidize non profit youth groups/programs. It's not just religious groups that have to pay more now.
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    I am neither comfounded by your reply, contradiction nor that quote you have repeatedly posted in messages.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    NH, you are not completely informed. While it is ttrue that all orgs have to pay more now, TDSB has now categorized those orgs under 3 different categories, and only 2 levels of subsidies. Religious groups get NO subsidies, while the community groups get subsidies. It is apparent that the TDSB is kicking churches to the curb.

    We use a 2 different gymnasiums here in Toronto, and til now were paying a total of $12,000 per yr. That comes to about $250 per use. 2 hours a week.

    We received a bill for the coming year for $90,000. That equals roughly $1730 for 2 hours of use per week.

    How on God's green earth is this equitable? Not only are we being asked to pay our fair share, but we seem (with that price) to be subsidizing the school board.

    Or else custodians are earning more than doctors and lawyers these days

    At any rate, my point is that NO religious organization gets level 2 or 1. They ruled that ONLY faith based groups would not receive subsidies. Thus it affects all churches.
    They are being discriminated against, without question and being charged obscene rates.

    As far as media coverage.. I have been monitoring this. A friend of mine is a talk show host on a well know Toronto radio station. We waited and waited for the media to pick up on this story, but this happened while the teachers union was making a big fuss in front of Queens Park and that event was getting all the attention. As far as I know It was not until another blogger (challies.com) wrote about it that the media picked up on the story, about one week after this became public knowledge.

  11. #91
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Yeah, I figured you would rejoice.
    That`d be fine by me as well. I am not complaining. Just explaining the facts, maàm. And showing that this is unfair. The line between faith based groups and non profits is a gray one.

  12. #92
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Blunt View Post
    A public school board isn't providing subsidies to religious groups?

    Perfect.

    Bravo!

    Exactly how it should be. Churches shouldn't see 1 cent of taxpayer money.
    No problem with that. Everybody should be treated exactly the same.

    This will likely end up costing the TDSB a lot. I hope.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  13. #93
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Here is the document, for anyone interested.
    http://www.tdsb.on.ca/ppf/uploads/files/live/92/175.pdf

  14. #94
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Oh, I think I can see how they get around the Human Rights Code now. They have a standard price for everything, so they are not discriminating on that level, but then offer subsidies to particular groups. So they aren't charging churches more, they're just charging other users less. Very creative way of getting around that set of rules!
    Currently being ignored: The Voice, The Official Cat of Soonet, Barry Morris, and Aristotle.

  15. #95
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    A growing number of people now suspect that the real reason this is happening is Bill 13 - the anti-bullying legislation which forbids even outside groups who rent from them from disagreeing with their policies on LGBT et al.

    They did not want to discriminate against us on that front, so they did it with the fees increase.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Ya, whatever Bluntsky
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  17. #97
    Senior Member Nihilistic Heathen's Avatar
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    A growing number of people now suspect that the real reason this is happening is Bill 13 - the anti-bullying legislation which forbids even outside groups who rent from them from disagreeing with their policies on LGBT et al.

    They did not want to discriminate against us on that front, so they did it with the fees increase.
    Yeah, that's probably it. It has nothing to do with the huge deficit the TDSB is facing. Who cares about the students enrolled in the TDSB when churches are being treated so unfairly and are not included in a program that is going to add an additional $8 million to their deficit.
    One can be a true believer in anything: psychic ability, Christianity or, as Bertrand Russell classically suggested (with irony), in the fact there is a teapot orbiting the earth. I could believe any of those things with total conviction. But my conviction doesn't make them true. Indeed, it is something of an insult to the very truth I might hold dear to say that something is true just because I believe it is. ~Derren Brown

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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbear View Post
    Ya, whatever Bluntsky
    Is this a form of name calling?
    CANADA................"often imitated but never duplicated"

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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilistic Heathen View Post
    Yeah, that's probably it. It has nothing to do with the huge deficit the TDSB is facing. Who cares about the students enrolled in the TDSB when churches are being treated so unfairly and are not included in a program that is going to add an additional $8 million to their deficit.
    It's always about "teh gays" with him.
    CLEAN UP YOUR OWN PUTRID BACKYARD BEFORE LECTURING OTHERS ABOUT THEIR BACKYARD!!!!!!!!(RWGR 2011)

  20. #100
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    Default Re: New study shows religion on the decline all over the world

    Quote Originally Posted by riggs View Post
    Is this a form of name calling?
    I dunno, ya think so??

    How does it compare with that Beard character's name?? Didn't see you dissing him.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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