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Thread: Essar Steel Algoma

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    Senior Member FBI's Avatar
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    Default Essar Steel Algoma

    Your thoughts on this 350 million dollar loan against all of its assets. Sound like one way to dump the place .imho.
    And awayy we go,,,,,,,,,,,

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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Glad to see I am not alone in my thoughts. 350 mill and walk away leaving someone else holding the bag and those accountable in far flung lands where Canadian arms cannot reach.
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Scary thoughts!

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    Senior Member steve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Financialiy Essar is a "house of cards"

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    The writing has been on the wall for quite some time with Essar. It should have been evident when 50% of the purchase price came from profits accumulated while still under previous ownership. Further that by the internal dismantling of steel making and Co-Generation into two separate entities...double profits for Essar Holdings. The off-shore handling of Order Entry and IT to India.... Order Entry in India didn't last long, but they'll try it again...soon enough. The roll-out of SAP across the mills... with the IT staff in India devising work-arounds rather than solutions to problems as they're found....

    It's Essar Holding's initiative to suck every last ounce of profit out of a once very successful and profitable steel making business, and leave it as a mere husk of what it once was.
    As the world fell, each of us in our own way was broken. It was hard to know who was more crazy: me or everyone else.
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Hunh, imagine that. Is that not what Paulson and his hedge fund attempted to do, before Algoma Steel was for sale?

    My understanding (from reading articles) was that this is just moving loans coming due from one lender to another. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I can't imagine any business would invest in operations (ie. Minnesota) to supply their own plant, if they were planning on decimating said plant.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by b&aMom View Post
    Hunh, imagine that. Is that not what Paulson and his hedge fund attempted to do, before Algoma Steel was for sale?

    My understanding (from reading articles) was that this is just moving loans coming due from one lender to another. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I can't imagine any business would invest in operations (ie. Minnesota) to supply their own plant, if they were planning on decimating said plant.
    Yes, that's exactly what is happening: all loans are being consolidated by Deutsche Bank Securities, and they will then seek out investors with whatever incentives they will offer. IE... invest $1 million, and we'll return $1.2 million to you in a year.
    As the world fell, each of us in our own way was broken. It was hard to know who was more crazy: me or everyone else.
    I am the one who runs from both the living and the dead; hunted by scavengers, haunted by those I could not protect.
    So I exist in this waste land; a man reduced to a single instinct......SURVIVE

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    Senior Member riggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Further that by the internal dismantling of steel making and Co-Generation into two separate entities...
    The Co-Gen was placed under Essar's energy division to eliminate the estimated 30 million (annually for 20 years) into the profit share plan.
    CANADA................"often imitated but never duplicated"

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    The loan taken to build the new tube mill was very large as well and was against all assets. Financing is cheap now so companies are borrowing. If Essar wanted to walk away from the steel mill they'd have at least one big problem I can think of - an environmental cleanup that would cost in the billions, not millions. Essar owns it and it is their responsibility to clean up all the slag dumps and so forth completely should they choose to shut down the mill.

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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Love Canal? Or are our laws stronger?
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    Love Canal? Or are our laws stronger?
    Environmental laws are much stronger since then, however I was told about the issue by a former top level executive back in the 80's.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by NewCasa View Post
    The loan taken to build the new tube mill was very large as well and was against all assets. Financing is cheap now so companies are borrowing. If Essar wanted to walk away from the steel mill they'd have at least one big problem I can think of - an environmental cleanup that would cost in the billions, not millions. Essar owns it and it is their responsibility to clean up all the slag dumps and so forth completely should they choose to shut down the mill.
    Slag dumps are not part of the environmental clean up. As a matter of fact, slag is currently being used as a base to our roads and rail system and has been for years.
    CANADA................"often imitated but never duplicated"

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by riggs View Post
    Slag dumps are not part of the environmental clean up. As a matter of fact, slag is currently being used as a base to our roads and rail system and has been for years.
    Yeah good point. Still a cleanup issue, but I guess the slag dumps are nice and clean.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by NewCasa View Post
    Yeah good point. Still a cleanup issue, but I guess the slag dumps are nice and clean.
    isn't station mall built on an old slag dump???
    Fate is just the weight of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    It's built on something, or it would be in the river.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Im afraid if essar ever decides to walk away from algoma it will be us the taxpayers that pay for a clean up.Taxpayers are still paying for the sysco cleanup.

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    it is reclaimed lan as they call it with slag as its base...the administration building and the unfinised parts (old) some of the old bar and strip..the coal piles and trans west (old algoma contractors is all "reclaimed land"
    Quote Originally Posted by Roll The Bones View Post
    isn't station mall built on an old slag dump???
    better to burnout,,,,than fade away

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by NewCasa View Post
    slag dumps are nice and clean.
    Now that I would believe from a top level executive in the 80's. Their only concern was to develop their "golden parachute" to make it more costly for the corporation to fire them.
    CANADA................"often imitated but never duplicated"

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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by riggs View Post
    Slag dumps are not part of the environmental clean up. As a matter of fact, slag is currently being used as a base to our roads and rail system and has been for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by NewCasa View Post
    Yeah good point. Still a cleanup issue, but I guess the slag dumps are nice and clean.
    Quote Originally Posted by riggs View Post
    Now that I would believe from a top level executive in the 80's. Their only concern was to develop their "golden parachute" to make it more costly for the corporation to fire them.
    Riggs, in your first point, you indicate that slag dumps are not considered an environmental issue while in your second point your sarcasm seems to imply that you consider them to be an issue to the environment. Which do you really believe?

    To follow up on my original point, I would say first off that slag is not simply slag. Slag from different heats can contain very different materials and some may include ones that are not environmentally friendly at all. Secondly, while the issue may or may not be purely environmental, the slag heaps would need to be removed so the land could be put to other uses. It is my understanding that, when a company such as Essar / Algoma is closed down the land on which it sits cannot simply be left as is.

    FYI - The executive I knew retired after a 40 year career with Algoma and with no golden parachute, just a pension which, while it was generous, was certainly not golden. He retired in the mid 70's before the current wave of robber baron mentality really took hold.

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    Senior Member riggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Essar Steel Algoma

    Quote Originally Posted by NewCasa View Post
    Riggs, in your first point, you indicate that slag dumps are not considered an environmental issue while in your second point your sarcasm seems to imply that you consider them to be an issue to the environment. Which do you really believe?


    To follow up on my original point, I would say first off that slag is not simply slag. Slag from different heats can contain very different materials and some may include ones that are not environmentally friendly at all. Secondly, while the issue may or may not be purely environmental, the slag heaps would need to be removed so the land could be put to other uses. It is my understanding that, when a company such as Essar / Algoma is closed down the land on which it sits cannot simply be left as is.

    FYI - The executive I knew retired after a 40 year career with Algoma and with no golden parachute, just a pension which, while it was generous, was certainly not golden. He retired in the mid 70's before the current wave of robber baron mentality really took hold.
    Slag is the least of any environmental issues otherwise it wouldn't be used in and around the public in accordance to todays environmental standards. Your concern for slag and their (so called) many different chemical signatures is nothing more than a overreaction. There are basically three different slag dumps in Essar. Two contain slag from the BF process (blast furnace) which have the same chemical signature. The only reason they are separate is due to the process in which it is hauled to their respected areas. The slag from both these areas are crushed (to spec) and washed with water and only water. After this simple process it is sold as fill for many public projects in communities across Canada.
    This slag itself has been used in many secondary American highways because it's cheaper then aggregate and provides a shorter stopping distance on wet roads.

    It should also be noted that Algoma/Essar has been granulating their ( BF) slag again for at least the last dozen years. This process is done primarily for sale for the concrete industry.

    The third kind of slag is a BOF slag (Basic Oxygen Furnace) which is derived from the steel making process. This slag has a totally different chemical signature. It is because of the steel residual left in minute quantity, it is not crushed. Therefore there is no current market for it. This slag is the end result of extensive screening (extracting of any metalics with a given ferrous value deemed sufficient for the steel making process).

    In the event of a total collapes or shut down, everything on the Essar site will be subject to scrutiny and I'm sure they would want the entire site cleaned. Some of that scrutiny will be based on proximity more than substance. So your pointing out "responsibility to clean up all the slag dumps and so forth" only shows you've pointed to an environmental concern that would have us redo some of our current infrastructure in both the US and Canada.

    Trust me NewCasa when I say, slag is the least of many environmental worries inside of Essar. After 100+ years of steel making there are greater threats than slag.
    CANADA................"often imitated but never duplicated"

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