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Thread: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

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    Default Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    It would appear that the Jews think so.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../biblejew.html

    Cut and Paste from above link

    ("After the Holocaust, we Jews gazed dumbfounded at what had occurred. Was it possible to go on believing in a God of love after losing 6 million individuals, one third of the Jewish people, almost 2 million of whom were children? Was it possible to go on believing in God's covenant with Israel and their election? Was it possible to go on believing? In God? In man? Indeed, was it possible to go on?


    Like Ezekiel before us, we Jews stood amidst the ashes of Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and Treblinka and we looked down in the valley of Sheol we asked, "Can these dry dead bones again live?" Can we Jews possibly recover from this devastation? And behold, a miracle—God breathed life into those dry bones and they came together, sinew to sinew, bone to bone. They took on flesh and spirit. They arose and were reborn in Jerusalem. "For the Lord has comforted His people, He has redeemed Zion."


    What does Israel mean to the contemporary Jew? It means that God has not abandoned His people. It means that He is true to His Word! Israel's existence gives us our very will and determination to continue living... as Jews. "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem and for the welfare of all its inhabitants. They shall prosper that love thee." (Psalm 122:6)")
    When you have no knowledge you have no argument.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    "They shall prosper that love thee."

    And the rest??
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    So You agree then that the Jews and not the Muslims were promised the Holy Land???
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice View Post
    So You agree then that the Jews and not the Muslims were promised the Holy Land???
    Do I?? Maybe.

    But:

    Rev 21:1
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    They honestly made a mistake when they allowed the State Of Israel to exist as a result of the end of the British Mandate for Palestine.
    They should have said no to David Ben-Gurion when he declared the State of Israel a day before the expiration of the British mandate. They should have stuck with the original plan that was proposed and accepted as a UN resolution.
    Despite "popular belief" it has little to do with the holocaust.
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Do I?? Maybe.

    But:

    Rev 21:1
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away
    What are you trying to prove by quoting that?
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    What are you trying to prove by quoting that?
    That in the end it really doesn't matter.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    They honestly made a mistake when they allowed the State Of Israel to exist as a result of the end of the British Mandate for Palestine.
    They should have said no to David Ben-Gurion when he declared the State of Israel a day before the expiration of the British mandate. They should have stuck with the original plan that was proposed and accepted as a UN resolution.
    Despite "popular belief" it has little to do with the holocaust.
    People associate the creation of the State of Israel with the Holocaust? If they do they have been taught poor history.

    The drive to create the State was put in high gear with the creation of the Zionist movement in the late-19th century.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    I thought the partition of Palestine was the original plan?
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    People associate the creation of the State of Israel with the Holocaust? If they do they have been taught poor history.

    The drive to create the State was put in high gear with the creation of the Zionist movement in the late-19th century.
    Or they are buying the Propaganda proliferated by the Hate Groups.
    When you have no knowledge you have no argument.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Or that's the way God wanted it!!
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Do I?? Maybe.

    But:

    Rev 21:1
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away
    So aside from quoting scripture you are not going to take a position??
    When you have no knowledge you have no argument.

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    They honestly made a mistake when they allowed the State Of Israel to exist as a result of the end of the British Mandate for Palestine.
    They should have said no to David Ben-Gurion when he declared the State of Israel a day before the expiration of the British mandate. They should have stuck with the original plan that was proposed and accepted as a UN resolution.
    Despite "popular belief" it has little to do with the holocaust.
    So as I have previously stated I thought the partition of Palestine was the Original Plan?? Could you espouse??
    When you have no knowledge you have no argument.

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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Yes, in the Bible, God promised the land of Israel to the Jews. Of that there is no doubt. Since the 2nd century, the church has debated the question, whether that promise still holds. I believe it does. But it would be wrong to regard everything Israel does as righteous. Far from it.

    And I think this questions matters a whole lot in the end.
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post

    And I think this questions matters a whole lot in the end.
    Can you tell us why??
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Well, sure. But many will not understand - (kinda an in-house discussion) that's why I hesitate.

    The people in the Old Testament understood clearly that God had promised the land to the descendants of Israel. We refer to it as the Abrahamic Covenant.
    There are some promises in the Old Testament that were conditional. In other words, I will keep my promise if you meet conditions A, B and C.

    The Abrahamic Covenant was an unconditional covenant. One sided. It was not a two sided covenant or a conditional covenant.

    Many of those who hold to the position that Israel is no longer significant in God's plans maintain that because ISrael rebelled and was disobedient, God transferred those covenantal blessings and promises to the Church.

    My issue is this. If God hasn't kept his covenant to Israel due to disobedience, then why should we deserve any better? The Church through the ages has been as undeserving as Israel has ever been. Is the New Covenant unconditional?

    Then so is the Abrahamic one.

    Ultimately I believe the question matters because it will vindicate God's Word. What greater surprise than to know after these 2 Millenia that God has remembered his people and will gather them in.
    Last edited by Bluesky; 11-23-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Thanks Blue!!
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice View Post
    So as I have previously stated I thought the partition of Palestine was the Original Plan?? Could you espouse??
    The original plan that was accepted as a general resolution at a UN convention called for a partition in 3 parts: A Muslim part, a Jewish part and Jerusalem itself would be put under a special international statute and would be governed as such.
    1 day before the expiration of the British mandate that governed Palestine, Ben Gurion declared the State of Israel without any specific borders. The rest is history.
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    Well, sure. But many will not understand - (kinda an in-house discussion) that's why I hesitate.

    The people in the Old Testament understood clearly that God had promised the land to the descendants of Israel. We refer to it as the Abrahamic Covenant.
    There are some promises in the Old Testament that were conditional. In other words, I will keep my promise if you meet conditions A, B and C.

    The Abrahamic Covenant was an unconditional covenant. One sided. It was not a two sided covenant or a conditional covenant.

    Many of those who hold to the position that Israel is no longer significant in God's plans maintain that because ISrael rebelled and was disobedient, God transferred those covenantal blessings and promises to the Church.

    My issue is this. If God hasn't kept his covenant to Israel due to disobedience, then why should we deserve any better? The Church through the ages has been as undeserving as Israel has ever been. Is the New Covenant unconditional?

    Then so is the Abrahamic one.

    Ultimately I believe the question matters because it will vindicate God's Word. What greater surprise than to know after these 2 Millenia that God has remembered his people and will gather them in.
    I never understood why anyone would have to prove they are "deserving". How would you prove to yourself you are "deserving" anyways?
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    Default Re: Did God Promise Israel to the Jews??

    Okay so Israel is allowed to have a state in Palestine but under the borders proposed by the UN correct?

    This question is for Hans
    Last edited by The Voice; 11-23-2014 at 02:27 PM. Reason: too add
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