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Thread: Celebrating Luther

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    I know Jesus died for my sins. I also know that salvation is not guaranteed, I can lose it, not from any failing of God's, but from my own.

    What a weak god you have. He is nothing more than an equal signatory in a contract with mankind: "I am really, really mad at this person, wish he wouldn't have turned into a killer and abused children, but, hey, I promised his salvation, can't take it away now"

    What a joke theology.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    I know Jesus died for my sins. I also know that salvation is not guaranteed, I can lose it, not from any failing of God's, but from my own.
    So tell us, with scripture examples, how one can be "unborn" again.

    What a weak god you have. He is nothing more than an equal signatory in a contract with mankind: "I am really, really mad at this person, wish he wouldn't have turned into a killer and abused children, but, hey, I promised his salvation, can't take it away now"

    What a joke theology.
    Really?? We have Moses, David and Paul, all murderers, and yet God's children. I think the RCC tries to ignore the idea of "born again", "legitimate" chuildren of God, because it's so much easier to control people if you keep them in fear.

    THAT is a joke theology, Satanic, I might even add.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    So tell us, with scripture examples, how one can be "unborn" again.

    Show me in Scripture where you cannot lose your salvation. If you couldn't, why would you have to work it out with fear and trembling?

    Really?? We have Moses, David and Paul, all murderers, and yet God's children.

    And they all accepted God in the end.

    We have Stalin, Hitler, etc...are they all saved? After all, they are all God's children, too.

    I think the RCC tries to ignore the idea of "born again", "legitimate" chuildren of God, because it's so much easier to control people if you keep them in fear.

    Your anger and overt emotionalism are blocking you form discussing in a mature manner.

    THAT is a joke theology, Satanic, I might even add

    If it were true, yes. Alas, it is not.

    Sorry that my comments about Luther have struck a nerve.
    Last edited by RWGR; 05-16-2016 at 01:06 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Heb.4: 4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age — and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.…


    If it wasn't possible for some one to lose their faith, this passage would not be written.
    Obviously, ppl can turn away from the faith or Paul would not have written this.

    Also:

    Matthew 13

    But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
    Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while
    : for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended
    Last edited by Barney Rubble; 05-16-2016 at 01:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Barney, last week you said the OT didn't mean all that much to you. Only in certain places?

    Still, I don't see any proof whatsoever that we cannot lose salvation.

    Matthew 10:22: "...he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

    What is to be endured, if one cannot lose salvation? Endure what?

    John 15:6: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up , thrown into the fire and burned."

    "Remain" in Jesus?

    Hmmm, seems to me that means simply believing is not enough; we need to "endure" and "remain"


    1 Corinthians 15-2: "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

    "If" you hold firmly? That means some will not hold firmly.

    "Believed in vain"? How can belief in Jesus be in vain, unless one claims they believe yet lose their salvation because of their actions, etc.

    And Barney, your Hebrews quote certainly shows one can lose salvation: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame."

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Hebrews 10:26-28 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    "After we received the knowledge of truth" is the same as "after we accepted Jesus".

    Again, it is quite clear that one can lose salvation.

    Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Not everyone that acknowledges Jesus as lord will gain salvation. How can that be?

    it must be because some of their actions forfeited the gift offered.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    So tell us, with scripture examples, how one can be "unborn" again.

    Show me in Scripture where you cannot lose your salvation. If you couldn't, why would you have to work it out with fear and trembling?

    It is obvious from the very term "Born again". Like any relationship so described. A child parent relationship CANNOT be changed, even by God. So you would have legitimate children of God in hell with ba$tards, as the unsaved are called in Scripture. Sorry, that makes no sense. Fear and trembling?? This is addressed to those who are already God's children. They are not be saved by working out, they are doing the will of God.

    Really?? We have Moses, David and Paul, all murderers, and yet God's children.

    And they all accepted God in the end.

    Nope, not quite. David was quite clearly God's child, annointed to be king.

    We have Stalin, Hitler, etc...are they all saved? After all, they are all God's children, too.
    Illegitimate children, not children of God, not born again

    I think the RCC tries to ignore the idea of "born again", "legitimate" children of God, because it's so much easier to control people if you keep them in fear.

    Your anger and overt emotionalism are blocking you form discussing in a mature manner.

    Like the RCC, you too ignore the ramifications of the concept of "born again."
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    ...and still waiting ...

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Most if not all the Scripture RW posts was directed at believers. The meanings are quite different to those already IN God's family.

    Which is why the RCC avoids discussion of the relationship Christians have with God.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Most if not all the Scripture RW posts was directed at believers. The meanings are quite different to those already IN God's family.

    Please, expound on that further.

    Which is why the RCC avoids discussion of the relationship Christians have with God.

    The RCC gave you The Bible. No source has discussed the relationship between God and his people more, or more in depth.

    Sorry if that offends.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Want to know what the RCC says about mans' relationship with God? simply access here: http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-tea...tholic-church/

    Want to know what Protestantism says about it? Ask the minister down the road. But, he may contradict the minister two roads over, who recently left a church he was with because he disagreed with their interpretations ...

    A mess. A sad, avoidable mess.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    Barney, last week you said the OT didn't mean all that much to you. Only in certain places?

    Still, I don't see any proof whatsoever that we cannot lose salvation.

    Matthew 10:22: "...he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

    What is to be endured, if one cannot lose salvation? Endure what?

    John 15:6: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up , thrown into the fire and burned."

    "Remain" in Jesus?

    Hmmm, seems to me that means simply believing is not enough; we need to "endure" and "remain"


    1 Corinthians 15-2: "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

    "If" you hold firmly? That means some will not hold firmly.

    "Believed in vain"? How can belief in Jesus be in vain, unless one claims they believe yet lose their salvation because of their actions, etc.

    And Barney, your Hebrews quote certainly shows one can lose salvation: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame."
    I was not disagreeing with you!
    I believe you can lose salvation OR never had it really to begin with
    Just because I am not Catholic doesn't mean I am against every teaching
    Last edited by Barney Rubble; 05-16-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Barney, last week you said the OT didn't mean all that much to you.
    The OT is very important to me.
    It relays the laws that we were to live by until CHRIST came & made the ultimate sacrifrice
    " Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith"
    Since CHRIST came, I dwell more there in my reading & the OT is my schoolmaster bringing me to HIM.
    How Bout Them Cowgirls?


  14. #34
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    I remember the first time I read, or heard, somewhere (can't remember which it was now) that the entire OT is simply the preconfiguring of Christ. Before that, it seemed a confusing set of tracts with lots of rules.

    Now, to read it in that light gives it a whole new meaning.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    I remember the first time I read, or heard, somewhere (can't remember which it was now) that the entire OT is simply the preconfiguring of Christ. Before that, it seemed a confusing set of tracts with lots of rules.

    Now, to read it in that light gives it a whole new meaning.
    Agreement.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble View Post
    I was not disagreeing with you!
    I believe you can lose salvation OR never had it really to begin with
    Just because I am not Catholic doesn't mean I am against every teaching
    Perhaps you would address the idea that one can become "unborn" again.

    To clarify my position, the bible often uses earthly relationships to describe our relationship with God.

    I have a son. NOT EVEN GOD can change that!!!!

    So I believe that "born again" describes a permanent relationship, once entered in to.

    Interested.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    Want to know what the RCC says about mans' relationship with God? simply access here: http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-tea...tholic-church/

    Want to know what Protestantism says about it? Ask the minister down the road. But, he may contradict the minister two roads over, who recently left a church he was with because he disagreed with their interpretations ...

    A mess. A sad, avoidable mess.
    You want me to read the entire catechism of the RCC to try to find information on one point.

    Tell me, where can I find a concordance on it?? Or a dictionary.

    I also know that, because they are only under the authority of Christ, you believe Protestants have 40,000 different sets of beliefs. Putting all Christian non-Roman Catholics into a box like that is good for your agenda, but not truth.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    You want me to read the entire catechism of the RCC to try to find information on one point.

    Tell me, where can I find a concordance on it?? Or a dictionary.
    There is a searchable data base on that site. There are other sites like it.

    For once, just once, why not go to the RCC and see what they believe, instead of insinuating what you think it might believe?

    Granted, you might have a lot less material to bash, but that isn't a bad thing, if you really care to know what it thinks.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post

    So I believe that "born again" describes a permanent relationship, once entered in to.

    Interested.
    No one is questioning that you believe that. That is quite clear.

    The problem is this: your belief is easily refutable with biblical passages.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Celebrating Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    No one is questioning that you believe that. That is quite clear.

    The problem is this: your belief is easily refutable with biblical passages.
    Only if you ignore context. Like passages aimed at Christians, that you must twist to make them seem to be aimed at non-believers.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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