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Thread: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    Well, the name of our church is -___________ Gospel Church.
    The structure of our church is as follows -
    Board of Directors (made up of multiple elders), Council (made up of elders and pastors), Congregational Board (made up of elders, deacons and pastor), and under that various committees and fellowships. Does this help?

    I didn't think so. What are you trying to figure out? Are you looking for something to attack or tear down?
    Looking for something you can point your finger at?
    I can provide you with plenty of that if that is what you want. WHat is it that you really want to know? Ask away.
    What I am trying to figure out is the following:

    - Do you accept the Pope is ultimately the leader of your Church.
    - And if not, why not and who do you accept as the ultimate leader instead?
    - And if you say there is no ultimate leader, you will have to explain how that exactly works as I find it hard to believe nobody is in charge of running your Church.
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    He's right, you never did learn to debate like a man.
    This is the picture I have in my head of you tree amigos:

    - RWGR: wizard with a staff and pointy hat, explaining the magical powers.
    - Blue: crusader knight with visor open, looking around.
    - Barry: inquisitor, ensuring everyone conforms to his vision.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    This is the picture I have in my head of you tree amigos:

    - RWGR: wizard with a staff and pointy hat, explaining the magical powers.
    - Blue: crusader knight with visor open, looking around.
    - Barry: inquisitor, ensuring everyone conforms to his vision.
    Your biggest problem is listening to the opinions of others instead of asking directly what people believe.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    What I am trying to figure out is the following:

    - Do you accept the Pope is ultimately the leader of your Church.
    - And if not, why not and who do you accept as the ultimate leader instead?
    - And if you say there is no ultimate leader, you will have to explain how that exactly works as I find it hard to believe nobody is in charge of running your Church.
    I suggest that, if you really wanted to know, it would not be hard to find out how a local church operates.
    It's all in the bible. Which the Pope ain't.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Your biggest problem is listening to the opinions of others instead of asking directly what people believe.
    Your opinions are usually very slanted towards one direction with refusal to consider any other options.
    Shall we get started again on the origins of the universe?
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    I suggest that, if you really wanted to know, it would not be hard to find out how a local church operates.
    It's all in the bible. Which the Pope ain't.
    How long has your church been operating?
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    How long has your church been operating?
    Probably twenty years

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    How long has your church been operating?
    The church, the body of Christ, has existed since Pentecost, which was shortly after the resurrection of Christ..

    The local assembly I attend has been in existence since 1885.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Your opinions are usually very slanted towards one direction with refusal to consider any other options.
    Shall we get started again on the origins of the universe?
    I'm trying to think of another option, on anything YOU propose, that makes any sense.

    Nothing will ever come from nothing.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post

    Nothing will ever come from nothing.
    As a stopped clock is correct twice per day, so is BM correct here.

    This simple, simple statement truly is the kryptonite to Atheists.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by stupefied View Post
    lol, just the opposite. Where did your God come from? I have yet to hear an answer for that. And no, God always existed isn't the answer. If God just always existed where did he/she exist before they created everything else?

    Some things we just don't know. God is a great way to explain them and a great way to control people but 'nothing comes from nothing' is proof of nothing.
    We believe that God created time, so He is outside time. "Come from" is meaningless.

    And I find it even easier to accept as science has shown the flexibility of time.

    As to "nothing comes from nothing", you aren't answering it, you're merely denying one possibility.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by RWGR View Post
    As a stopped clock is correct twice per day, so is BM correct here. ...
    Only two insults in this post. Maybe he's improving.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    We believe that God created time, so He is outside time. "Come from" is meaningless.

    And I find it even easier to accept as science has shown the flexibility of time.

    As to "nothing comes from nothing", you aren't answering it, you're merely denying one possibility.

    Even outside time, you would still have to explain where that status came from. It is not because time is not present that "nothing comes from nothing" all of a sudden would not apply anymore.
    Whatever exists outside of time would still have to come into existence somehow, from somewhere, by some mechanism.
    You are flipping between existence and "nothing comes from nothing" as it suits your needs.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Even outside time, you would still have to explain where that status came from. It is not because time is not present that "nothing comes from nothing" all of a sudden would not apply anymore.
    Whatever exists outside of time wouldstill have to come into existence somehow, from somewhere, by some mechanism.
    You are flipping between existence and "nothing comes from nothing" as it suits your needs.
    And every time you respond, you imply the passage of time.

    I wish you had more imagination.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by stupefied View Post
    I'm not denying anything, merely admitting that there are things we don't know and that your 'belief' proves nothing.
    Hey, I know there's lots of things we don't know.

    But "nothing comes from nothing" is a simple logical step you just can't accept, because it implies "Something".
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by stupefied View Post
    lol, if you only knew how ridiculous that statement seems.

    Saying that nothing can come from nothing does nothing to support the existence of a God. Saying that 'comes from' implies time and that God exists out of time does nothing to explain how this God can exist.

    Trying to support a belief without facts doesn't work. You believe, you have faith. You think you know. You have no proof though.
    And you have faith that you know enough to definitively state that our very existence, and the universe around us has no source.

    I understand.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    And every time you respond, you imply the passage of time.

    I wish you had more imagination.
    Your equation that "coming into existence" equals the passage of time is incorrect.

    Time is a state, no time is also a state.
    In either state, you can have existence as in "you exist".
    But that does not mean that in a no time state you have always existed.
    You will always need a starting point of that state, with or without time.

    It is the only way for you to solve the problem of how God can come from nothing.
    You switch from nothing comes from nothing to existence as a work around of the issue on how God Himself came to be.

    You simply state He was always there.
    It is you who lacks imagination my friend.
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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Your equation that "coming into existence" equals the passage of time is incorrect.

    Time is a state, no time is also a state.
    In either state, you can have existence as in "you exist".
    But that does not mean that in a no time state you have always existed.
    You will always need a starting point of that state, with or without time.

    It is the only way for you to solve the problem of how God can come from nothing.
    You switch from nothing comes from nothing to existence as a work around of the issue on how God Himself came to be.

    You simply state He was always there.
    It is you who lacks imagination my friend.
    Sorry, Hans.

    You just keep using words that reflect your own humanity, which operates in linear time.

    It seems clear that you cannot imagine a state of existence outside your own.

    That's fine.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    That is ok. You only see it as a one way street, never considering we could go into a timeless state as some point in the future.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    That is ok. You only see it as a one way street, never considering we could go into a timeless state as some point in the future.
    I believe we will. Some with God. Some not.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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