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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Ravi Zacharias video clip

    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    It still comes down to a Saviour who requires He be the reason and He wants credit and adoration for what you do in His name. You can do all the good you wish but failing to present your goodness in His name disallows you from Heaven. That is screwed up, sorry.
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    It still comes down to a Saviour who requires He be the reason and He wants credit and adoration for what you do in His name. You can do all the good you wish but failing to present your goodness in His name disallows you from Heaven. That is screwed up, sorry.
    I am not sure I understand you.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    It is not the good you do that gets you into Heaven rather it is the credit you give God for the good you do that paves the way. I can do all the good possible yet because I do not give Him credit and I do not praise Him, my good deeds go for nought.
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    It is not the good you do that gets you into Heaven rather it is the credit you give God for the good you do that paves the way. I can do all the good possible yet because I do not give Him credit and I do not praise Him, my good deeds go for nought.
    The Bible says every righteous thing we do is like a filthy rag to God. So what will you do??
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    The Bible says every righteous thing we do is like a filthy rag to God. So what will you do??
    Does this not completely discredit works done by anyone who nothing of God? Simply because they have not accepted Him their good deeds fall on infertile ground. This argument is circular, it comes down to God being narcissistic if you will.
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    The Bible says every righteous thing we do is like a filthy rag to God. So what will you do??
    The Bible says a lot of things, that does not mean it is all truth.
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    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    The Bible says a lot of things, that does not mean it is all truth.
    Is this an absolute truth?
    Being that this is a subjective truth, I think you should put "In my opinion"!
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble View Post
    Is this an absolute truth?
    Being that this is a subjective truth, I think you should put "In my opinion"!

    Read the first 20 pages, count how many names it gives, than ask yourself how correct those could be.
    I would say very incorrect.
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    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    According to The Bible, you are not saved by works in Jesus' name nor simply good works at all.
    The thief on the cross had no evident good works to speak of.

    Eph*2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The Bible says that it is faith in Christ that saves you.
    That is the BIG difference between Christianity & other religions.
    The majority of others believe in spirituality & works for salvation, yet Christianity (true Christianity) states that:

    Ac*4:12
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Joh*14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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    Senior Member Anapeg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble View Post
    According to The Bible: Joh*14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    So heathens not enlightened by God are condemned to an eternity in Hell because neither have they been redeemed? Now all this aside, an atheist, agnostic, or one not enlightened is to be judged under what guidelines? Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other number of followers? If people are Christian and God turns out to be as I believe a Jew, where do they stand?
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    So heathens not enlightened by God are condemned to an eternity in Hell because neither have they been redeemed? Now all this aside, an atheist, agnostic, or one not enlightened is to be judged under what guidelines? Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other number of followers? If people are Christian and God turns out to be as I believe a Jew, where do they stand?
    My opinion,. for what it`s worth.

    I`m talking about eternal salvation here. Nothing else.

    It is my opinion that trust in something greater than ourselves is the bottom line when it comes to eternally living with God.

    What good act could we perform to impress God. None

    What theology could we learn to impress God, or understand His infinite being. None.

    From the moment a person realizes that God exists, and he turns to seek Him, he is a child of God.

    And there is no denomination or form of religion that affects that.

    FWIW.

    Some don`t like it.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    My opinion,. for what it`s worth.

    I`m talking about eternal salvation here. Nothing else.

    It is my opinion that trust in something greater than ourselves is the bottom line when it comes to eternally living with God.

    What good act could we perform to impress God. None

    What theology could we learn to impress God, or understand His infinite being. None.

    From the moment a person realizes that God exists, and he turns to seek Him, he is a child of God.

    And there is no denomination or form of religion that affects that.

    FWIW.

    Some don`t like it.
    How does one seek GOD then? To be a child of GOD?
    What must one do to be saved?
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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    This post is for Christians.. I need to say something.. to us.
    Since GOD can not condone sin nor live with it, the unrepented sinner is separated from GOD by that own person's recourse.
    I have always had a problem with the view that depicts God as kind of a milquetoast who cannot bear the presence of sin, sort of like a sissy who cannot stand the sight of blood.

    Or like Superman who cannot be in the presence of kryptonite.

    This view causes people to think God has a weakness. ("SIN!! get away from me, I can't stand it.")

    I know that is not how most Christians mean it, but that is how it is communicated. God can't bear sin. In other words, it's his problem.

    Let me try this on you.
    Man was created by God with purpose and meaning. We are meant to live for Him.
    Sin happens when we live, act or speak outside of his defined purpose for us. He meant for us to live in harmony with Him and with one another. There's a Jewish word for that - shalom.

    Whatever destroys that shalom, that peace, is sin. Hating your brother, taking something that is not yours, worshipping gods that do not exist, disrespecting your elders, breaking civil law, etc.

    Why can't God tolerate sin? Because it diminishes what He loves. Sin breaks the trust that was to exist between Him and those whom He created in His own image.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble View Post
    How does one seek GOD then? To be a child of GOD?
    What must one do to be saved?
    I believe that Christians have all kinds of formulas and practices to "come to God". And many of them we don't fully understand.

    But in the end, God knows each man's heart. And if that heart seeks God, God knows it and takes it in.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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    Senior Member Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    So heathens not enlightened by God are condemned to an eternity in Hell because neither have they been redeemed? Now all this aside, an atheist, agnostic, or one not enlightened is to be judged under what guidelines? Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other number of followers? If people are Christian and God turns out to be as I believe a Jew, where do they stand?
    Not condemned but rather "separated" from GOD.
    Since GOD can not condone sin nor live with it, the unrepented sinner is separated from GOD by thgat own person's recourse.
    Seeing that GOD is all good & righteous, logic & order, what is left?
    chaos, disorder & evil = hell (whether it be physical fire & brimstone or not)

    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    2Pet 3:9

    GOD does not condemn anybody.
    They condemn themselves.
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Africa had already enough Christianity pushed on them in the past.
    No need to do it all over again.
    I am sure that if they wanted it they can get it themselves.
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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    From the moment a person realizes that God exists, and he turns to seek Him, he is a child of God.

    FWIW.

    Some don`t like it.
    mm, I wonder why.
    Barry, your opinion seems pretty absolutist. So you are saying the radical Muslim who is sincere in seeking God, and truly thinks he is obeying God by blowing himself up along with taking dozens with him is a child of God then.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    mm, I wonder why.
    Barry, your opinion seems pretty absolutist. So you are saying the radical Muslim who is sincere in seeking God, and truly thinks he is obeying God by blowing himself up along with taking dozens with him is a child of God then.
    Am I?? I don't think so.

    I think you just might prefer the formulas mentioned above, derived from the bible, written in large part by three murderers.

    God knows the heart.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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    Default Re: Ravi Zacharias video clip

    And you know that how?
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