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Thread: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

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    Default Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Hey Bluesky and Aristotle,

    The past 6 months or so, I've been listening to Pastor Doug Batchelor's radio show "Bible Answers Live" on my way to work in the mornings, and often on the way home again. He appears to be quite knowledgeable of the bible, and backs up every answer to every bible question with scripture in a manner that sounds like it makes sense.
    According to him, when Christians die (presently, before the second coming of Christ) they do not go straight to heaven. Although their "next conscious thought" is the judgement day, people do not go to heaven or to hell at death. He refers to this as a "sleep", and according to his website "amazingfacts.org" "In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind".

    Is this a common Christian belief? I was under the impression that "most" (whatever that means) Christian denominations believe that you go to heaven immediately. By Pastor Doug's reasoning, virtually no one has *yet* gone to heaven, as they are awaiting the return of Christ.

    They way he explains it, and the considerable scripture he uses to defend this actually sounds biblical.

    Thoughts?

    KaL

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    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Good Question.

    Mainstream evangelical Christianity has most often taught that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8). The 7th Day Adventists and some other sects have veered away from that plain teaching and have asserted that the Bible teaches as your post describes. I would not call it a heresy, because whatever happens will happen, of course.

    And the RCC teaches that most Christians will first visit purgatory where they will be cleansed (purged) from their sins for eons before they are taken to heaven,
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Hi there, Bluesky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    Mainstream evangelical Christianity has most often taught that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8). The 7th Day Adventists and some other sects have veered away from that plain teaching and have asserted that the Bible teaches as your post describes. I would not call it a heresy, because whatever happens will happen, of course.
    Pastor Doug addresses 2 Cor 5:8 at length, generally every time this comes up on his radio show. He also addresses it here:

    https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-l...-from-the-body

    I don't think I have ever heard mention what denomination he believes in, but after a quick google search, I believe he is seventh day adventist. This seems in line with his also often-stated opinion about the sabbath. If able, can you take a quick peek at that link, and share your thoughts? I might end up following up with another thread on the sabbath as well, (saturday vs sunday) so I will be interested in your take on that too.

    KaL

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalam View Post
    Hi there, Bluesky.



    Pastor Doug addresses 2 Cor 5:8 at length, generally every time this comes up on his radio show. He also addresses it here:

    https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-l...-from-the-body

    I don't think I have ever heard mention what denomination he believes in, but after a quick google search, I believe he is seventh day adventist. This seems in line with his also often-stated opinion about the sabbath. If able, can you take a quick peek at that link, and share your thoughts? I might end up following up with another thread on the sabbath as well, (saturday vs sunday) so I will be interested in your take on that too.

    KaL
    Hi there again, Bluesky. I am hoping you may be in a position now to comment further on this? I've recently gone back to you comments, specifically where you stated ""to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8). While admittedly I haven't put much time into it, I can' seem to find that translation. From what I've read recently, it appears that that is not what 2 Cor 5:8 says, or appears to mean, in context of the entire passage. Your quote seems to indicate that A = B (to be absent from the body - A, is to be present with the Lord -B), but doesn't the actual verse indicate that Paul has a preference (he prefers B over A)?

    https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-l...-from-the-body

    KaL

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Interesting, he's a Protestant pastor who seems to be flirting with Roman Catholic theology.
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Hey there Aristotle,

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Interesting, he's a Protestant pastor who seems to be flirting with Roman Catholic theology.
    I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, as it relates to purgatory. Here is Pastor Doug's view on "are the dead really dead" :

    https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-l...d-really-dead-

    Kal

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Do not want to get into a theological kerfuffle (I do believe this is the only time I've ever used the word "kerfuffle", it's fun), but here are a few reasons Catholics believe there is actually a purification before entering Heaven:

    https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Do not want to get into a theological kerfuffle (I do believe this is the only time I've ever used the word "kerfuffle", it's fun), but here are a few reasons Catholics believe there is actually a purification before entering Heaven:

    https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory

    Thanks for this - going to read.

    KaL

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Kalam, Blue is out of the country at this time and unable to respond, he asked me to pass on his message.
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anapeg View Post
    Kalam, Blue is out of the country at this time and unable to respond, he asked me to pass on his message.
    much appreciated!

    KaL

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Ever wondered why heaven is up and hell is down?
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Ever wondered why heaven is up and hell is down?
    Up is good, down is not? Up, you are free to move and down you are restricted, constricted by dirt and a coffin. An interesting question that makes you pause. Where one of the thoughts of extraterrestrials being some of the people in the Bible...
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Consider the possibility that there is no time in heaven.

    As such, upon death, we all go straight to Judgement Day.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Consider the possibility that there is no time in heaven.

    As such, upon death, we all go straight to Judgement Day.
    Source? Link?
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Source? Link?
    Why, the bible of course. But you only regard that as a secondary source, so there's actually nothing you would believe.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Ever wondered why heaven is up and hell is down?
    Doesn't matter.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Doesn't matter.
    Are you sure?
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Are you sure?
    Of course. Or do you think the earth is flat, and there's nothing underneath but hell??
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Morris View Post
    Of course. Or do you think the earth is flat, and there's nothing underneath but hell??
    Even if it would be flat, there would still be something underneath.
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    Default Re: Do Christians go to Heaven When they Die?

    I can now finally post again. For some reason, I was not able to post on Soonet with my device or my phone. Musty have had something to do with cookies..

    OK, to your question. May I ask why this is such an important point for you? It doesn't make a lot of difference to me; belief in the doctrine of soul sleep is not an essential to salvation kind of doctrine. And if we really are unconscious, we will certainly ot be aware of the passage of time between the time of our death and the resurrection of the body. So it doesn't seem very beneficial to argue for one position or the other.

    But let's look at the question once again.
    Basically, the question is, Can the soul exist in a state of some kind of awareness following the death of the body? Or must soul and body be alive together? It seems so. We have the case of Samuel who was roused by the witch of Endor. We have Jesus promising one of the thieves being executed with him, "Today you will be with me in paradise". You have the souls of the martyrs in the book of Revelation aware of the passage of time and crying out to God. We have the account of the rich man and Lazarus. Whether that is a parable or not, it is still tells us about the state of the soul after death.

    BTW, I think it was the KJV that has that rendering
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A8&version=KJV


    First Paul uses a Greek word that implies certainty and thus COURAGE.. He could very well be saying - I have great confidence in this and it gives me courage..

    Question: What gave Paul this confidence? Well, remember that he had an experience that he described as "whether I was in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell" At least in THAT narrative, Paul admits the possibility of having an out of body experience with his spirit.

    Then Paul says that he would rather be away from the body... Why if it means soul sleep? In that scenario Paul's desire makes no sense. But Paul explains why being away from the body is preferable. Away from the body EQUALS Being in the Lord's presence.

    This verse cannot be explained any other way.
    But I think I have said this before.

    But please explain why this is so important to you? Why is this even an issue? What are the implications if you do/don't believe it?







    Phil 1:21-24
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

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