Vianet.ca
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Crucifixion statement

  1. #1
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Crucifixion statement

    I have always found it interesting how big of a role crucifixion plays in biblical events and Christianity in general.
    Does that make it a statement?
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  2. #2
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    errrr ...
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Without the Crucifixion there is no Resurrection; without the Resurrection there is no reason to believe Jesus was anything more than a very wise prophet.

    So, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Hans, here is why it is such a big deal. Throughout mankind's history, there seems to always have been a need for atonement and redemption. Evolutionists will say that we developed a "god-gene" and that somehow triggers this need to worship and to have a favourable relationship with a deity. This favourable relationship is brought about through the process of somehow appeasing an angry deity by a sacrifice of some sort.

    The biblical view is that sacrifice was necessary from the beginning of Creation, or at least from the moment that Adam and Eve first disobeyed God and were expelled from the Garden of Eden.

    The Old Testament is full of atonement and sacrifice. There were five distinct kinds of sacrificial offerings prescribed in Jewish liturgy. You find them described (and prescribed) in the book of Leviticus, the 3 book in the Bible.

    When Jesus comes, He offers himself as the ultimate and final sacrifice for sin, and to make it possible not only for the Jew but for the Gentile to atone for their sins and to be reconciled to our Creator. Without the crucifixion of Christ, we have no hope of eternal life.

    The crucifixion is the central aspect of the Gospel, the good news of salvation that we are to proclaim to everyone.

    I can be forgiven of all my wrong doing, and I am freed from that dread sense of being under condemnation by trusting that Jesus Christ aid my moral debt when He died on the cross. This was partly what he implied when he cried on the cross, "It is finished". the work of redemption was completed on the cross. Yes, it was a very big deal.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    But crucifixion was a form of capital Roman punishment and commonly used throughout history.
    So I don't see it as something special, it's almost common during those times.

    It was later used as the cross and I guess one of the most well known symbols in Catholic religion.

    It's odd why it pops up everywhere.
    What if there would not have been a crucifixion but a public beheading instead or some other dead sentence? Would that change anything?
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    I suspect that if hanging had been the method of Jesus' execution, people would be wearing gold nooses around their necks. It isn't the instrument that he died on that is so significant. It's that we killed someone claiming to be the Son of God. And of course the theological significance that comes with that.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    It is interesting you use the word claiming. I think I am starting to rub off on you!
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  8. #8
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Hans, you seem to be asserting Christians believe there's only been one crucifixion in history.

    Anyone with a basic knowledge of ancient history knows that's not the case.
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Ah no, I am saying that out of all the things they picked that to build their religion around and give it visibility.
    Like I said before, and you just said it yourself: Crucifixion at that time was nothing special.
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sault
    Posts
    37,800

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Jesus rose from the dead. There is the power of God. The crucifixion was the precursor to that. You said, "Crucifixion at that time was nothing special." True. Except that it was considered the worst punishment. Also, under the Mosaic Law, those who were hanged on a tree were cursed.
    Religion doesn't save you, change you. heal you or set you free. Jesus does.

    "if you could lose your salvation, you would!" John Macarthur

    I promise to always post sober.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Ah no, I am saying that out of all the things they picked that to build their religion around and give it visibility.
    Like I said before, and you just said it yourself: Crucifixion at that time was nothing special.
    How he died is not important; the he died, and rose, is important.

    Not sure where you get that Christians built a religion around the cross. It's a symbol, like a dove, or fish.
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    It is interesting you use the word claiming. I think I am starting to rub off on you!
    I think I was using that word long before I met you here Hans!
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    Ah no, I am saying that out of all the things they picked that to build their religion around and give it visibility.
    Like I said before, and you just said it yourself: Crucifixion at that time was nothing special.
    Hansie, Hansie. Crucifixion was not special because common criminals were crucified, and there were thousands that died on that instrument of slow and torturous death. The fact that the Son of God was crucified MADE it special. And you said that "they picked crucifixion."
    Which tells me that you still believe the myth that the crucifixion story was invented. AM I correct?
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    Hansie, Hansie. Crucifixion was not special because common criminals were crucified, and there were thousands that died on that instrument of slow and torturous death. The fact that the Son of God was crucified MADE it special. And you said that "they picked crucifixion."
    Which tells me that you still believe the myth that the crucifixion story was invented. AM I correct?
    Not invented. The resurrection invented, yes. The motives for that part of the story are clear.
    Are artifacts from the Crucifixion invented? Absolutely. Spear of destiny, titulus crucis etc...
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    How he died is not important; the he died, and rose, is important.

    Not sure where you get that Christians built a religion around the cross. It's a symbol, like a dove, or fish.
    It's not just a symbol. It is used everywhere, as a sign of Christianity, for the past 2,000 years and counting.
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  16. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    How he died is not important; the he died, and rose, is important.

    Not sure where you get that Christians built a religion around the cross. It's a symbol, like a dove, or fish.
    It's not just a symbol. It is used everywhere, as a sign of Christianity, for the past 2,000 years and counting.
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

  17. #17
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    The motives for that part of the story are clear.
    And so talk to us about what you think the motives were.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,377

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    It's not just a symbol. It is used everywhere, as a sign of Christianity
    Hans. Symbol and sign mean the same thing.
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Hans splitting hairs (or, "splitting hares", in honor of ol' Soc67). A sign the ol' boy is trapped.
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  20. #20
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    17,251

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    Hans. Symbol and sign mean the same thing.
    We can agree to disagree on that.
    A symbol to me is something that represents something, but it can have different meaning in different places.
    A sign is something that communicates with the target audience group.
    Alienware R10 3700X RTX 3080, Samsung 2443BW, Benq SW2700PT

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts