Vianet.ca
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 41 to 45 of 45

Thread: Crucifixion statement

  1. #41
    Senior Member Bluesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,345

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    There is no dilemma about the sealed tomb. It was sealed, 100% sure of that. With guards 24/7 just to be 100% sure.
    The dilemma is not in the seal.
    The question is: was there a body inside, or not?

    As far as scholars are concerned, I agree with them the tomb was empty.
    It has to be empty, otherwise you cannot execute the resurrection and ascension part of the plan.

    So now comes the interesting question: what happened that there was an empty tomb?
    The answer is dead simply (no fun intended): there never was a body inside to begin with.
    It's a trick used by magicians ever since we had magic tricks. They make things disappear, because those things were never there to begin with.



    So now it's Jesus the Magician. Man oh man. I am amazed at the contortions you are willing to suffer in an effort to avoid the inevitable. Why do I feel as if you are just making stuff up as we go?
    SO if there was never a body in the first place, you have a few problems to solve.

    1. Joseph of Arimethea - the man who had Jesus' body placed in his tomb. He was a well known individual in Jerusalem, and he volunteered his tomb for Jesus to be buried in. He would have been complicit in the conspiracy.

    2. Where is the body and how was it spirited away from the Roman soldiers? Remember, a Roman guard was posted at the tomb to ensure that the disciples would not come to steal his body. They KNEW Jesus had predicted that He would rise again; that is why the Romans posted a guard - to avoid any stunts such as you are asserting.

    3. It's Friday night. Sabbath begins at 6 P.M. The would not be allowed to touch a human body after that time. They didn't have much time to 'anoint' the body. Load it up with spices and aromatic smelling stuff, which was their custom, so the ladies came back early on Sunday morning to finish the job of anointing his body with myrrh, etc..

    4. The most significant evidence ( I heard a Jewish rabbi and professor from Tuebingen say this) If this story was invented by his disciples, they would NEVER have had women to be your first eye witnesses of an empty tomb. In that day, no one would regard a female witness as credible. They had little legal status, and therefore, if this story is being invented, a leading disciple would have been the first witness to say that the tomb was empty and that Jesus had appeared to them. This Jewish prof believed in the resurrection for that very reason.
    How is it that there were so many eyewitnesses who claimed seeing the resurrected Christ?
    The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

  2. #42
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    16,988

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesky View Post
    So now it's Jesus the Magician. Man oh man. I am amazed at the contortions you are willing to suffer in an effort to avoid the inevitable. Why do I feel as if you are just making stuff up as we go?
    SO if there was never a body in the first place, you have a few problems to solve.

    1. Joseph of Arimethea - the man who had Jesus' body placed in his tomb. He was a well known individual in Jerusalem, and he volunteered his tomb for Jesus to be buried in. He would have been complicit in the conspiracy.

    2. Where is the body and how was it spirited away from the Roman soldiers? Remember, a Roman guard was posted at the tomb to ensure that the disciples would not come to steal his body. They KNEW Jesus had predicted that He would rise again; that is why the Romans posted a guard - to avoid any stunts such as you are asserting.

    3. It's Friday night. Sabbath begins at 6 P.M. The would not be allowed to touch a human body after that time. They didn't have much time to 'anoint' the body. Load it up with spices and aromatic smelling stuff, which was their custom, so the ladies came back early on Sunday morning to finish the job of anointing his body with myrrh, etc..

    4. The most significant evidence ( I heard a Jewish rabbi and professor from Tuebingen say this) If this story was invented by his disciples, they would NEVER have had women to be your first eye witnesses of an empty tomb. In that day, no one would regard a female witness as credible. They had little legal status, and therefore, if this story is being invented, a leading disciple would have been the first witness to say that the tomb was empty and that Jesus had appeared to them. This Jewish prof believed in the resurrection for that very reason.
    How is it that there were so many eyewitnesses who claimed seeing the resurrected Christ?

    1. Yes, and why could he not be complicit?
    2. The "stunt" is not to get the body out of the tomb. The "stunt" was to never place a body in the tomb to begin with. It does not matter if you post a guard outside or not, because there's nothing inside to begin with.
    3. ok, sure.
    4. I think you are confused slightly here. The story was not invented by the disciples. It was invented by Jesus prior to his death, so the disciples simply followed Jesus like they always did and played out the story as per Jesus' instructions.

    How is it that there were so many eyewitnesses who claimed seeing the resurrected Christ? I don't know, how is it that there are so many people who claim they have seen UFO's, been abducted by UFO's, seen ghost, etc... ?

    I will add a link for you to ponder upon. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/b...epared-buried/
    Do you concur the information in that link describes more or less what happened when it comes to the burial of Jesus?
    Last edited by Hans; 3 Days Ago at 11:14 PM.
    2600X at 4.25 Ghz, CLC 240, OCZ Vertex 4, Corsair M4, Samsung EVO 850, Gigabyte G1 GTX 1070, 2 x 8GB Trident Z RGB, Corsair 600T, Samsung 2443BW, Asus PB278Q 2560x1440

  3. #43
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    16,988

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    I think they were both the same a bit, but let's just say they were a bit "single sided"

    https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80108299

    That's the one I watched and addresses some of the same issues as those links but it looks at it "from both sides of the table".

    There's also an interesting article at this location: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...oud/index.html
    It fits in with what I have always said about the shroud way back: What's the chances of something from that time frame being preserved to this date and it just happens to be the one from Jesus? It looks like a super slim chance and just highly improbable.

    To me it's in the same category as the spear of destiny, the holy grail, the titulus, and a whole slew of other relics attributed to Jesus.
    2600X at 4.25 Ghz, CLC 240, OCZ Vertex 4, Corsair M4, Samsung EVO 850, Gigabyte G1 GTX 1070, 2 x 8GB Trident Z RGB, Corsair 600T, Samsung 2443BW, Asus PB278Q 2560x1440

  4. #44
    Senior Member Aristotle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,503

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Single-sided? If so, it's because the preponderance of scientific truth that points to the Shroud being legit is overwhelming.

    He meets the science crowd and their turf, and practically proves the Shroud is real.
    The one exclusive sign of thorough knowledge is the power of teaching.

  5. #45
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    16,988

    Default Re: Crucifixion statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Single-sided? If so, it's because the preponderance of scientific truth that points to the Shroud being legit is overwhelming.

    He meets the science crowd and their turf, and practically proves the Shroud is real.
    We can agree to disagree on that.
    2600X at 4.25 Ghz, CLC 240, OCZ Vertex 4, Corsair M4, Samsung EVO 850, Gigabyte G1 GTX 1070, 2 x 8GB Trident Z RGB, Corsair 600T, Samsung 2443BW, Asus PB278Q 2560x1440

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts