Hope you party people are all safe

[Aristotle]

I see all religion as being rooted in humans trying to answer the questions of life, without scientific knowledge.

That's ironic, because I see a total reliance on science as being rooted in humans trying to answer the questions of life, without God


As our scientific knowledge expands, our questions shrink.

I could not disagree more. The more we discover, the more questions we have. Science is good at answering some of them, but not all, not even close.

It's only a matter of time before we will unlock the recipe of life

Why wait? Christians unlocked it long ago!


Once that is done, religious ideas will not hold the values they currently hold.

A cute theory. Proven spectacularly wrong in every century since the Scientific Revolution almost five hundred years ago.



It will be interesting to see what happens next, once the idea of an afterlife seizes to exist.

It is absolutely laughable you think science could prove such a thing. Saying "just wait and see" is the coward's way out (not saying you are one personally).

Christianity lays it all out to see. Here it is, this is what this existence is all about. Take a look. You may scoff at it, laugh at it, wonder at it, maybe even believe some of it; but at the end of the day the Christian is not afraid to lay it all out for all to see.

Science is afraid, because science knows it is only able to answer some questions, not all. And so to buy time, people say "someday science will ..."

Nope, it won't. It can't.

[Hans]

Christianity lays out nothing regarding the afterlife. Ask a christian how it looks, and you will get an answer, but it will be different than what the next christian will describe. And don't get me started about the whole "soul" concoction.

Science is not there to prove or disprove an afterlife.
Once we unlock the ability to take lifeless elements from around us, and create living cells from those, the idea of an afterlife will be over since it will become clear once we die, so do our cells and we turn back into the basic lifeless elements we originated from.

If it happens in our lifetime, we will talk again about your beliefs. We will see how it has changed.

[Aristotle]

Christianity lays out nothing regarding the afterlife.

I'm afraid you're very mistaken here. The Afterlife is everything in Christianity. The key is making it through this pilgrimage until you get there.

Ask a christian how it looks, and you will get an answer, but it will be different than what the next christian will describe.

This I will grant you. But I will also tell you this: it's why I gave up my dad's Protestantism and grasped my mom's Catholicism. The Catholic Church has not veered from what She has taught since day one.

Protestantism is meeting God on mans terms ; Catholicism is meeting God on God's terms.


Then you end with lots of "if" and "whens", which is typical for science.


Science is limited. It has proven as much over and over.

[Hans]

Tell me, what's your take on the office of Pope, and the leading of the Church by the Pope.

[Aristotle]

Tell me, what's your take on the office of Pope, and the leading of the Church by the Pope.

It's exactly as Jesus wanted. He handed Peter the primacy of His Church. All of Peter's successors (Popes) would claim the same designation.

You know what happens when you don't have a leadership office like the papacy? Thousands of denominations, as new churches start up all the time due to conflicts, misunderstandings, and disagreements.

[Hans]

It's exactly as Jesus wanted. He handed Peter the primacy of His Church. All of Peter's successors (Popes) would claim the same designation.

You know what happens when you don't have a leadership office like the papacy? Thousands of denominations, as new churches start up all the time due to conflicts, misunderstandings, and disagreements.

Maybe, but I was watching the Borgia series on Netflix, and ended up researching the Pope's during that time frame as well as other infamous Pope's, anti-popes, and the Vatican archives.
After all that I came to the conclusion that the office of Pope is not exactly how Jesus would have wanted it. The power struggles, the politics, the nepotism, it's all there and documented in historic documents and various documents in the Vatican archives.
You could make the argument it's all rooted in long standing tradition, but at the same time it becomes clear that tradition was the result of ages of power struggles.

[Aristotle]

Maybe, but I was watching the Borgia series on Netflix, and ended up researching the Pope's during that time frame as well as other infamous Pope's, anti-popes, and the Vatican archives.
After all that I came to the conclusion that the office of Pope is not exactly how Jesus would have wanted it. The power struggles, the politics, the nepotism, it's all there and documented in historic documents and various documents in the Vatican archives.
You could make the argument it's all rooted in long standing tradition, but at the same time it becomes clear that tradition was the result of ages of power struggles.

There have been bad popes. This is because the Church, while created by Christ, nonetheless is inhabited by sinners and fallen people; how else could it be otherwise?

You can cite the bad popes of the Borgia era, I can cite Pope John Paul II. And on we go, endlessly countering each other.

There have been terrible popes and popes who are saints. In other words, popes are human. Remember, the pope is only infallible when he speaks in union with the college of cardinals, in other words, The Magesterium. So, it is possible to have bad popes but the Church still survives, and doctrine remains intact.

Jesus promised the gates of Hell would not triumph against His Church. They haven't. No other institution or world power has survived two thousand years. That is because all other institutions and world powers are man-made. The Church is not.

Someone once said when you review the history of the Catholic Church, and see how many awful people were part of its leadership at times, it's not possible to know this and not admit that The Church is indeed protected by Jesus' promise.

[Hans]

There have been bad popes. This is because the Church, while created by Christ, nonetheless is inhabited by sinners and fallen people; how else could it be otherwise?

You can cite the bad popes of the Borgia era, I can cite Pope John Paul II. And on we go, endlessly countering each other.

There have been terrible popes and popes who are saints. In other words, popes are human. Remember, the pope is only infallible when he speaks in union with the college of cardinals, in other words, The Magesterium. So, it is possible to have bad popes but the Church still survives, and doctrine remains intact.

Jesus promised the gates of Hell would not triumph against His Church. They haven't. No other institution or world power has survived two thousand years. That is because all other institutions and world powers are man-made. The Church is not.

Someone once said when you review the history of the Catholic Church, and see how many awful people were part of its leadership at times, it's not possible to know this and not admit that The Church is indeed protected by Jesus' promise.

Survival of institutions is inherent to all main religions. So I don't think it's just the RC that survives.
Also keep in mind cardinals are appointed by the Pope, and there is a lot of politics involved with that process.

I think it would be much better if Cardinals would be chosen by means of election and voting of the faithful.

I am almost finished watching the series, I hope they merge the Medici series into the Borgia series, since the Medici produced I believe 2 Popes and the Farnese link to Alexander Sixtus produced 1 Pope.
It would make for a good follow up series, it's even all around the same time frame.

[Hans]

Do you think US cities are burning and people are looting due to sin, or repentance?

[Aristotle]

Survival of institutions is inherent to all main religions. So I don't think it's just the RC that survives.

Name one institution that has been around two thousand years. A religion like Buddhism is not an institution like Roman Catholicism.

Also keep in mind cardinals are appointed by the Pope, and there is a lot of politics involved with that process.

At times, yes. What does this have to do with anything?

I think it would be much better if Cardinals would be chosen by means of election and voting of the faithful.

It's not a democracy, nor should it be. Protestantism is a democracy, and the results speak for themselves.

[Aristotle]

Do you think US cities are burning and people are looting due to sin, or repentance?

I don't understand the question?

All problems have their fundamental start with sin.

[Hans]

I don't understand the question?

All problems have their fundamental start with sin.

So you think the looting and rioting is not due to what happened to a man in custody, but due to sin?
If you read the news, it seems they mostly believe it is due to what happened to a man in custody.

[Hans]

Survival of institutions is inherent to all main religions. So I don't think it's just the RC that survives.

Name one institution that has been around two thousand years. A religion like Buddhism is not an institution like Roman Catholicism.

Also keep in mind cardinals are appointed by the Pope, and there is a lot of politics involved with that process.

At times, yes. What does this have to do with anything?

I think it would be much better if Cardinals would be chosen by means of election and voting of the faithful.

It's not a democracy, nor should it be. Protestantism is a democracy, and the results speak for themselves.

Imperial House of Japan has been around since roughly 11 February 660 BC, spanning 126 Monarchs.
That's just one of many

[Aristotle]

So you think the looting and rioting is not due to what happened to a man in custody, but due to sin?
If you read the news, it seems they mostly believe it is due to what happened to a man in custody.

It's both. Why does it necessarily have to be one or the other?

[Aristotle]

Imperial House of Japan has been around since roughly 11 February 660 BC, spanning 126 Monarchs.
That's just one of many

LOL...that's not an institution like the RCC. The RCC is a worldwide institution, which makes its 2,000-year history even more amazing.

And, well, there's this ...

Though evidence of the first 25 emperors is shrouded in myth, there is ample historical proof of an unbroken hereditary line from A.D. 500 to today

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/09/w...al-family.html

Even if we were to grant it the same status as the RCC...which it doesn't have, not even close...but for argument's sake, let's give it the benefit of the doubt ...it's still 500 years younger than the RCC.

"Just one of many"

Sure, so many you couldn't even list one more.

You're slipping, Hansy!

[Hans]

There's so many. Free Masonry. We can now start to argue about their origins, King Solomon's temple or not.

[Hans]

It's both. Why does it necessarily have to be one or the other?

Because you can't have it both ways. You can't be dead and alive at the same time.
So, sin or no sin?

[Aristotle]

There's so many. Free Masonry. We can now start to argue about their origins, King Solomon's temple or not.

White flag accepted, my friend.

Nothing can compare to the 2,000-year-reign of the RCC

[Aristotle]

Because you can't have it both ways. You can't be dead and alive at the same time.
So, sin or no sin?

Being dead and alive is not related to looting and rioting being related to both the current situation (a man brutalized by police), and this being part of a larger whole: sin.

It's the microcosm (Floyd incident) and the macrocosm (mankind's sin)

[Hans]

Being dead and alive is not related to looting and rioting being related to both the current situation (a man brutalized by police), and this being part of a larger whole: sin.

It's the microcosm (Floyd incident) and the macrocosm (mankind's sin)

That's the issue: you Don't want to pick a choice, you want both choices to apply.