Abortion "not a human right"

[GenX]

" Pope Benedict rejected the concept that abortion could be considered a human right on Friday and urged European leaders to do everything possible to raise birth rates and make their countries more child-friendly.

The 80-year-old German Pontiff told diplomats and representatives of international organizations that Europe could not deny its Christian roots because Christianity had played a decisive role in forging its history and culture.

"It was in Europe that the notion of human rights was first formulated. The fundamental human right, the presupposition of every other right, is the right to life itself," he said in an address at the former imperial Hofburg Palace.

"This is true of life from the moment of conception until its natural end. Abortion, consequently, cannot be a human right -- it is the very opposite. It is a deep wound in society."

LINK

[Crusty]

What's the Popes take on smoking while your kids are in the car ?

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> make their countries more child-friendly.
LINK </div></div>

This from the same creep who's job it was to cover up the abuses of the priests of the same kids.

[GenX]

That's his job, huh?

Do you really want to give off the impression you're that dumb, or do you want to admit your emotions often get the best of you?

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crusty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the Popes take on smoking while your kids are in the car ? </div></div>

Not sure; but I do know he often expounds on the importance of hard work and being a productive member of society. In that sense, I can see why you have no use for him. Those that hold up mirrors to us often are on the receiving end of most our hate.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's his job, huh?

Do you really want to give off the impression you're that dumb, or do you want to admit your emotions often get the best of you? </div></div>


Its been well documented that this was one of his main jobs till he got his present one. So I guess that yes I'd rather be dumb as compared to being an [censored] like you.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

The pope says it isn't, but I say it is. That's a 1 all draw I reckon.

I say isn't. 2-1.
God says it isn't. Game over.

[Larimar]

Is it fair to give one being human rights while taking it from another?-Would that then be taking away equal rights and giving it only to those most powerful and in a powerful positions, leaving the weak and defensless to nothing at all?
Many people actually believe it' a women's right issue to be pro choice, when the majority of feminists out there do not feel that way at all.
I wanted to share these few quotes in the spirit of pro life and considering it's a religious forum I thought this would be appropriate as it has the same morals.


""How quickly a 'woman's right to choose' comes to serve a 'man's right to use.'" --Juli Loesch "


""Because abortion undeniably involves a degree of physical and emotional pain, the abortion decision cannot be viewed apart from the factors that motivate it. Those factors-personal problems, social pressure, lack of support from family, society, or friends--suggest that the choice is never a truly voluntary one. It is more likely in fact that women submit to abortions, not so much because they have a choice, but because they feel that in their own circumstances, they have no choice at all.... Abortion does nothing whatever to promote social and economic justice, nor does it compensate for the lack of it." --Elizabeth Moore Sobo "


""Tunnel-visioned pro-abortion feminists cannot see to help [us] develop real alternatives to abortion, programs of support for women with hardship pregnancies, a change in society's attitude toward pregnant women so that young women won't automatically think that, once pregnant, they can never attend college, never pursue a career, not go on living. Pro-abortion feminists are part of the problem--they contribute to a 'pregnancy as disease', 'fetus as cancer' attitude that turns a normal, natural function of a woman's body into something to be attacked with a curette and vacuum. Is this creative thinking? Is this women supporting women? What kind of 'sisterhood' have we wreaked upon ourselves?" --Paulette Joyer "

""[W]e refuse to join [organizations like NOW] totally because they seek to solve the world's ills through the violent means of abortion. Feminists for Life consider the fanatical insistence of certain women's rights groups on abortion to be a sell-out of the feminist cause. They have sold out to the male dominated abortion industry (and it has been documented that the greatest majority of clinics are businesses owned by entrepreneurs) and to the playboy philosophy which sees women as exploitable commodities for male convenience and profit.
"Abortion is the destruction of human life and energy that does nothing to eradicate the very real underlying problems of women. The pregnant welfare mother begs for decent housing, a decent job and child-care or respect for her child-nurturing work. Instead, she gets directions to the local abortion clinic and is told to take care of 'her problem.' How convenient. Much less time and trouble than teaching her about authentic reproductive freedom and reproductive responsibility. Much cheaper than attending to her real problems: her poverty, her lack of skills, her illiteracy, her loneliness, her bitterness about her entrapment, her self-contempt, her vulnerability. After the abortion these problems will all be there and another one added besides: her guilt."

-Source:

http://www.geocities.com/livefreecri...feminists.html

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Winnie the Pooh says it is. 3v3

[Jackie B]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img] Wow, Winnie the Pooh says kill the babies? I must have missed that episode. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/no_no.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Return of Too Many Daves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Winnie the Pooh says it is. 3v3</div></div>

Ya see? Here we are again,
STarting with different assumptions, and, naturally deriving different conclusions.

I know, to you, god exists like winnie the pooh exists.

SO how about this compromise.
If God doesn't exist, I'm still better off not to allow wholesale abortion f I want the human race to survive.
If God does exist, and it is the God of the Bible, then we also have a moral obligation to forbid abortion.

In either case, it's game over for pro-abortionists.

You can now see the end result of abortion policies in both China and India, where abortions were probably being allowed longer than in the west.

There is a severe shortage of girls happening because boys are valued more highly than girls.

Abortion and birth control is killing the western world. That's one of the reasons our doors are wide open to immigrants. And they are having kids like popcorn. There will be no clash of civilizations. We will roll over with a whimper and cease to exist. Because we do not value children. It's that simple.

[1337]

Look at it this way

Anti Religion - Human RIGHT
Religious - Your given the power of choice, and its your choice.

God doesn't exist, so it is your right.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Abortion is not a threat to human survival. In the West population decline or slowing increase does not put us on the brink of extinction.

[Crusty]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crusty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the Popes take on smoking while your kids are in the car ? </div></div>

Not sure; but I do know he often expounds on the importance of hard work and being a productive member of society. In that sense, I can see why you have no use for him. Those that hold up mirrors to us often are on the receiving end of most our hate. </div></div>

Wow...

First of all ... I have never made any negative reference to the pope. I merely asked a question. If the Catholic religion is militant about protecting a child’s life from the moment of conception, then polluting that life by smoking next to them in a car should also be a sin.

Secondly ... "on the receiving end of most our hate”? That’s quite a religion you uphold that practices "hate". I didn't read about that in the bible. Tell us more about God's hate...

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Aydeloof, you brought the assumptions to the table with your "god is against it comment". A silly comment to make to atheists. Lets look at your assumptions though. What lines of the bible are against abortion?

Right. So I have a question for you.
One would assume that an atheist has no interest in religion.

Why do you continue to argue in a forum where YOU KNOW that the assumption of the existence of God is always there? And then you are the one who acts surprised when we make that assumption??

If we discuss abortion with your assumptions in mind, it would strictly be a socio-political discussion. You could well discuss that over in the political forum.

I am just saying, if you want to discuss stuff here with ME, you need to work with our assumptions, instead of us always bending to your assumptions.

And knowing our assumptions, you can quit with the silly sayings that compare or faith to believing in winnie the pooh. That, to us, with not only an assumption, but what we regard as something sacred and precious, is dissing our faith. Happens all the time, and people either don't realize or don't care.

We KNOW you don't believe in God. You don't have to parrot guys like DAwkins and others by comparing our faith to the Easter bunny or to orbiting teapots.. we get that.

And why should I try to show you why I believe God forbids abortion. After all is said and done, it won't matter to you because you will just say winnie the pooh anyway.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Aydeloof, don't cry. You made the comments about assumptions, it was just ironic that you didn't realise it was a trap that you had dragged us into.

I understood that this was a forum for discussing religion. I believe it is important to do so it has a huge impact on our lives. I really had not realised that this forum was for believers only. Now that you have made your rule clear I'm sure all atheists will ove on. By the way I think it only fair that atheists have their own forum then. Also is this forum for all religions I would you prefer it if only those who precisely agreed with your view came on here?

My question is doesa the bible forbid abortion? So given that you believe what the bible says, are you wrong to believe that the bible forbids it? An honest question. As for why you should respond, you don't have to. You choose to.

And as for my comments about Winnie the Pooh being silly, if you didn't stifle the debate by continuously spouting "God says so therefore it is" then I wouldn't have to make them.

[Crusty]

This forum has always and always will be about Christianity more specifically the Roman Catholic version of it. No other religious views will be tolerated or accepted.

Much like the political forum is all about Conservatism more specifically American Conservatives. No other views are accepted or tolerated.

Anyone that would dare express opinion the deviates from either perspective is clearly, uneducated, unemployed, and unworthy.

And for the most part the same two prophets attempt to control both forums ramming conservative religious values down our throats on a daily basis.

All in all it makes for a good laugh once and a while other wise it’s usually just a bad sermon.

Arighty … back to the topic at hand … until RWGR tells us all about God’s hate

[GRUMPY]

Actually according to that guy over in Rome there IS only one catholic church all the rest are false and theres no way that there followers are going to get to heaven.