Ontario Referendum Question - What?

[froggy_doddy]

OK, Is it just me are is the referendum question confusing. The way I understand it is that:

NOW WE elect a local representative and that vote also goes towards that party's leader (eg. Orazietti local = McGuinty Provential)

NEW SYSTEM would allow us to vote for a local member from one party and vote for that same party or any other leader (eg. Orazietti local, Tory Provential).

Is this correct? How does the new system affect us in the north?

Comments?

[Madmax]

In simple terms we get screwed in the north... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Your right about the one vote and that could be dangerous to have, as if a party is ultimately voted in. We could then be on a doomed adventure of a "jakarses are us government".

[newman]

Why would you want the local guy to be different than the party in power? ( Not saying you ) It does not make sense! I wish there was a crystal ball that could tell me who the winner was going to be because the local guy would get my vote every time. I think David O has done a great job for us but if the NDP or PC's were in power his hands would be tied.

[Madmax]

Well if they are different it can cause problems, but if they were a majority rule on one party. That alone is scary .. imagine a NDP or PC ruled province...nah not for me.

[Super Gram]

Not for me either........

[Karen-Annie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheGUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Is this correct? How does the new system affect us in the north?

Comments? </div></div>

Personally,I agree....the North WILL get screwed.Fewer,larger ridings will reduce the number of directly elected Northern MPP's.Those other 30 seats will go,proportionally,to those on the lists of each party with 3% or more of the popular vote.Each party makes up their own list from bonafide members.You KNOW those will be party hacks.Nothing says a party has to pick a % of those on the lists from the North.Where are the most votes in the province?That's who will get the bulk of the list positions as parties curry favour with the populace.

The proponents insist parties will be trying to curry favour with ALL Ontarians....but if they have screwed the North in the past,rather than trying to attract the votes of the North,why should anything be suddenly different? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img]

[northern nomad]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...500532-sun.php

read this mandatory if you are going to vote

[Return of Too Many Daves]

As I understand it you get 2 votes, one for a regional member (about 2 thirds of members are elected like this - it is called 1st past the post), and a second seperate vote for a party (this is alled proportional representation and about 1/3 of members are selected in this way). If a party gets 10 % of the proportional representation vote they get to choose 10 % of the proportional representation members. This is of benefit to minority parties, and also if the party you support has no chance of winning in your area you can still use your 2nd vote to elect members of that party.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karen-annie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheGUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Is this correct? How does the new system affect us in the north?

Comments? </div></div>

Personally,I agree....the North WILL get screwed.Fewer,larger ridings will reduce the number of directly elected Northern MPP's.Those other 30 seats will go,proportionally,to those on the lists of each party with 3% or more of the popular vote.Each party makes up their own list from bonafide members.You KNOW those will be party hacks.Nothing says a party has to pick a % of those on the lists from the North.Where are the most votes in the province?That's who will get the bulk of the list positions as parties curry favour with the populace.

The proponents insist parties will be trying to curry favour with ALL Ontarians....but if they have screwed the North in the past,rather than trying to attract the votes of the North,why should anything be suddenly different? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img] </div></div>

Sorry but I'm getting tired of reading that the North is getting screwed over. Do the math where does the greatest % of the people live, we have such a small % of the population of the Province up here that I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't actually getting too much.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Ah well it feels like you are getting screwed. This is why pure democracy is a bit crap really. If the majority demands the minority has to wear silly hats, then that is fair and democratic. But it still feels like the minority are being screwed. Sorry for the inane example but democracy always screws the minority.

[GenX]

As opposed to all other forms of government, which tends to screw the majority.

That is why democracy works best.

And, Dave, there is not, nor has there even been, a "pure democracy" in the history of mankind. We've had representative democracy, proportional democracy, or whatever else 'adjective-in front-of-democracy' you'd like to list...but there has never been a pure democracy.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

True there has never been a true democracy, we'd have to vote on everything.

I do think democracy is the best political system, I was just demonstrating the potential drawbacks, and why minnorities sometimes feel screwed. It is also why it is important we vote with a conscience and vote for politicians with a conscience, and have human right bills. Otherwise we'd all be [censored] minorities all the time.

[Karen-Annie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grumpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry but I'm getting tired of reading that the North is getting screwed over. Do the math where does the greatest % of the people live, we have such a small % of the population of the Province up here that I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't actually getting too much. </div></div>

It is not so much about the money.It is about blanket policies/solutions/formulae that are just fine for Southern Ontario but do not take into consideration the realities of life/enviroment in the North.Policies that do not take into consideration that reality mean that the North DOES get screwed on GTA-centric policies.

[The 6th Member Of AC/DC]

Northern Ontario should be split into another province then. We tend to get ignored here all the time and its a shame...

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karen-annie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grumpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry but I'm getting tired of reading that the North is getting screwed over. Do the math where does the greatest % of the people live, we have such a small % of the population of the Province up here that I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't actually getting too much. </div></div>

It is not so much about the money.It is about blanket policies/solutions/formulae that are just fine for Southern Ontario but do not take into consideration the realities of life/enviroment in the North.Policies that do not take into consideration that reality mean that the North DOES get screwed on GTA-centric policies. </div></div>

I agree wit you on this point, But remember that most of the [censored] the north got was after they put in a Premier from the north who understood how the north felt.