Anglicanism in Canada

For those interested, J. I. Packer, well known author of "Knowing God" and signator to "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" & Anglican theologian writes about the current schism happening in the Anglican church.

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/index...cker/#more-2460

[Soundbear]

Good article and explanation. I appreciate his definition of the church universal.

Right on. That was the focal point, I thought. I LOVED his definition. Although it is a bit different from Westminster's definition.

[Soundbear]

Oh? Where could I see that??

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that fills all in all.[1]

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

III. Unto this catholic visible Church Christ has given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and does, by His own presence and Spirit, according to His promise, make them effectual thereunto.[7]

IV. This catholic Church has been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.[8] And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.[9] emphasis mine

V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error;[10] and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.[11] Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth to worship God according to His will.[12]

(I left off the part about the Pope being the Antichrist. I was surprised to find that there.)

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I left off the part about the Pope being the Antichrist. I was surprised to find that there. </div></div>

Why were you surprised?

They needed that there to for approbation of their split from Rome.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paul analyses the church’s given unity in terms of one body and one spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism and one family, and speaks of the resultant reality as “the unity of the Spirit,” </div></div>

So much "unity", in fact, there is a new 'church' springing up every week.

He totally contradicts himself. Espousing on the wonders of Christian unity, yet totally ignoring the fact that Protestant denominations numbers in the tens of thousands.

The Protestant gymnastics continue...

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when the English church withdrew from the Church of Rome in the sixteenth century, should be called not schism but realignment </div></div>

[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif[/img] ...and I'll leave the article at that point.

Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards ‘Catholic’ . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1

Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Augustine

We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name, which the whole world employs in her regard (The True Religion 7:12 [A.D. 390]).

We believe in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church; for heretics and schismatics call their own congregations churches. But heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God, and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor (Faith and Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paul analyses the church’s given unity in terms of one body and one spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism and one family, and speaks of the resultant reality as “the unity of the Spirit,” </div></div>

So much "unity", in fact, there is a new 'church' springing up every week.

He totally contradicts himself. Espousing on the wonders of Christian unity, yet totally ignoring the fact that Protestant denominations numbers in the tens of thousands.

The Protestant gymnastics continue...

</div></div>

I would be curious to know what the RC church does with those among her who deny the fundamentals of the Roman Catholic faith. Can they remain members if they deny the infallibility of the magisterium? or if they deny the truth of the Trinity?

[Soundbear]

Please don't quote the parrot. His garbage appears to everyone when you do.

From what you did quote, he continues to "misunderstand" what the church actually is, probably deliberately.

[Soundbear]

"..the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced,.."

Recent events in our little section of the church indicate that the "embraced" is the problem.

I wonder whether Speedy has read the paper entitled, "Evangelicals and Catholics Together". Barry, Have you? You can find it easily on the web. Read it.. and get back to me and tell me what you think.

[Soundbear]

Just a quick look turned up this site:

http://www.leaderu.com/ect/ectmenu.html

I'll read it later, and others.